Why Credit Union Voices Matter in Legislation and Regulation With Keili McEwen

In this episode of The Same Day Podcast, host Mat Zalk sits down with Keili McEwen, Vice President of Governmental Affairs at Tinker Federal Credit Union (TFCU), to discuss why credit union voices matter in legislation and regulation. They explore how advocacy impacts member benefits, the importance of aligning with lawmakers’ priorities, and the unique challenges of operating in a highly regulated environment. Keili also gives advice on building champions in government through trust and storytelling.

Why Credit Union Voices Matter in Legislation and Regulation With Keili McEwen

Keili McEwen is the Vice President of Governmental Affairs at Tinker Federal Credit Union (TFCU), a major not-for-profit financial institution and the largest credit union in Oklahoma. TFCU serves Air Force personnel, employees of more than 2,200 area companies, and residents across Oklahoma and Texas, with more than $6.1 billion in assets and over 470,000 members as of mid-2025. In her role, Keili leads all state and federal advocacy, legislative strategy, and political engagement on behalf of the credit union. Before joining TFCU in 2022, she built a career spanning two decades in public policy and nonprofit leadership, including senior roles at Oklahoma’s Department of Human Services and in the offices of Governors Mary Fallin and Mike Huckabee.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

• [3:23] Keili McEwen explains what makes credit unions unique compared to traditional banks
• [06:38] Member ownership and governance at Tinker Federal Credit Union (TFCU)
• [7:42] TFCU’s size, growth, and ranking among the nation’s top credit unions
• [9:09] How credit unions deliver competitive rates and dividends to members
• [11:57] Keili’s role in navigating a highly regulated financial services environment
• [15:50] Educating lawmakers and advocating for credit union priorities in Congress
• [17:17] The legislative push to exempt veteran-owned business loans from lending caps
• [38:19] The secret to influence lies in knowing what motivates lawmakers
• [41:40] The importance of honesty and preparation when opposing legislation with lawmakers
• [46:01] Building relationships with lawmakers to rightsize regulations

In this episode…

What really makes credit unions stand apart in today’s financial landscape? Unlike traditional banks, they operate with a mission-driven, member-owned model that brings unique challenges and opportunities when navigating complex regulations and legislative environments. But how do these institutions ensure their voices are heard when laws are written and policies are shaped?

According to Keili McEwen, a seasoned leader in public policy and advocacy, it starts with building strong relationships and consistently educating lawmakers about the credit union difference. She highlights that effective influence requires both deep subject matter expertise and a clear understanding of what motivates decision-makers. By aligning credit union priorities with the values and agendas of policymakers, Keili notes, it becomes possible to secure meaningful change for members.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Mat Zalk on LinkedIn
• Yonatan Schmidt on LinkedIn
• Keyrenter Property Management
• Keyrenter Property Management in Tulsa | Oklahoma City | Arkansas
• Keyrenter Property Management email address: [email protected]
• Chris Lile State Farm
• Keili McEwen on LinkedIn
• Tinker Federal Credit Union (TFCU)
• “Paving the Way for Affordable Housing in Urban Communities” with Devin Howland on The Same Day Podcast
• “How To Leverage Investor Dashboards To Analyze Rental Profitability” with Yonatan Schmidt on The Same Day Podcast
• Navy Federal Credit Union

Quotable Moments

• “But what makes a credit union maybe a little bit different than the banks in your community is that we are a member-owned financial institution.”
• “And so every member at TFCU, of which there are about 475,000 members, have a vote in our operations.”
• “I read not too long ago that there are two industries in the US that are the most regulated, that is banking, financial services, or healthcare.”
• “Influence, when it comes down to it, is really about having common sense and a little bit of street smart.”
• “It is never fun to tell a bill author that you don’t like their bill, but it is always the right thing to do.”

Action Steps

1. Build relationships with lawmakers: Establishing trust and ongoing dialogue helps ensure your industry’s unique challenges are understood and addressed.
2. Educate policymakers about your business model: Explaining how your operations differ prevents one-size-fits-all regulations that may not make sense for your industry.
3. Monitor and anticipate regulatory changes: Staying ahead of upcoming legislation allows organizations to prepare, adapt, and advocate before rules take effect.
4. Advocate consistently with honesty: Being transparent and accurate in discussions with lawmakers strengthens credibility and long-term influence in policy debates.
5. Align advocacy with lawmakers’ priorities: Connecting your message to their agendas increases the chance of meaningful support and legislative impact.

Sponsor for this episode…

Chris Lile at State Farm Insurance:

This episode is brought to you by Chris Lile at State Farm Insurance. 

Chris Lile at State Farm helps you protect your most precious assets and investments, including home and auto. 

To learn more about how you can save double digits on all your insurance needs, visit diallile.com or call Chris’ office at 918-878-7771.

Keyrenter Property Management:

This episode is brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management.

Keyrenter Property Management is a full-service property management company that helps clients buy, renovate, and operate real estate assets.

The team helps clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management.

That’s why, no matter what rental you have — single-family homes, condos, townhomes, or apartments — they can give you the management solutions you need.

To learn more about their services, go to https://keyrenterpmc.com/ or send them an email at [email protected].

Episode Transcript

Intro: 00:04

Welcome to The Same Day Podcast, where we discuss driving incremental business growth and other topics related to real estate, property management and entrepreneurship. Now to the show at hand.

Mat Zalk 00:21

Mat Zalk here, I’m the host of The Same Day Podcast where I connect with top business experts and real estate leaders. We’ve had tons of past guests on. We’ve had Devin Howland talking about economic development in Fayetteville. Yoni Schmidt of the Keyrenter team, who also hosts this show, has talked to plenty of property owners and answer some of their frequently asked questions. And we’ve also had folks on from different HVAC companies talking about the systems that they install and repair and how they work and why they’re so expensive, which is a serious concern these days.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Chris Lile State Farm. Chris Lile State Farm helps you protect your most precious assets and investments. Whether it’s your home and auto investment, rental properties or other valuables. Call Chris Lile State Farm for a quick and painless phone call to potentially save you double digits on all of your insurance needs, visitdiallile.com or call his office at (918) 878-7771. Today’s episode is also brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management. At Keyrenter Property Management, we are a full service property management company helping our clients buy, renovate and operate real estate assets. 

We help our clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management. And that’s why no matter what rental you have a single family home, a condo, a townhome apartment, we have the management solutions that you need. Go to keyrenterpmc.com. Today’s guest is Keili McEwen, and she serves as vice president of governmental affairs at Tinker Federal Credit Union, Oklahoma’s largest credit union. In this role, she leads all state and federal advocacy, legislative strategy and political engagement on behalf of the $6 billion financial institution with more than two decades of experience in public policy, political strategy, and coalition building. 

Keili brings a forward thinking approach to influence rooted in principle and purpose. A trailblazer in credit union advocacy, she was the first in-house lobbyist for a not for profit financial institution in Oklahoma. Her leadership has helped shape the future of credit union policy, while ensuring the voices of members and mission driven institutions are effectively represented in government. Keili McEwen. Welcome to the show. How are you?

Keili McEwen 02:32

I’m great. How are you today, Mat?

Mat Zalk 02:33

I’m good, but I am. I am a little bit jealous of your pod. I’ll be honest. Yeah, I’m in a shared office, and it can. It can be problematic.

I would like to get some of those pods. They’re surprisingly expensive, I should say. They’re like. Some of them are like, 7 or 8 grand. So I’ve been reluctant to add pods in my office. 

 But eventually we’re going to move to a different space. But I should just start out transparently. I’m jealous.

Keili McEwen 02:55

Well, the pod is cool. It’s soundproof and very private, despite the fact that I am also in a shared space right now.

Mat Zalk 03:03

So so Tinker Federal Credit Union, a lot of our listeners probably don’t understand, and I count myself among those people that don’t understand the difference between a credit union or what’s unique about a credit union versus a traditional commercial bank. Can you help us understand?

Keili McEwen 03:23

Yeah, absolutely. So credit unions are financial institutions just like any bank in your community. A credit union can open accounts. We have lending products. You know, if you need a car loan, we can certainly help you with that or mortgage.

But what makes a credit union maybe a little bit different than the banks in your community is that we are a member owned financial institution. And so in order to do business with a credit union, you have to qualify for our field of membership. So in Tinker’s case, it’s it’s sort of in our name, but lots of credit unions, that’s not it’s not as obvious. But you know, our original field of membership, for which we were created in 1946, was to serve employees at Tinker Air Force Base, both civilian and military employees there on base. Over the years, credit union field of memberships have changed significantly. 

 And so, you know, we now have additional fields of membership throughout the state of Oklahoma doing business with what are called select employee groups. And so and that’s that’s a model or a multiple common bond credit union. So many credit unions that are federal in nature, meaning we’re federally regulated, have field of membership that expand, that is expanded beyond their original field of membership. But you do still have to qualify for for membership in order to to bank with us to access our products and loans. And then we are governed by our members. 

 And so every member at TFCU, of which there are about 475,000 members, yeah, across Oklahoma, across the US and even the globe, as you can imagine, with military in our membership, have a vote in our operations. And so every year at our annual meeting, our membership, the entire 470,000 folks who do business with us have a vote in the way that our credit union is run and governed. Now, they don’t all show up to that meeting. Thankfully, we wouldn’t have the space for them, but they certainly do have the right to to vote in terms of our membership and governance structures. And so we are also governed by our members. 

 And so we have a board of directors, much like a non-profit has a board of directors. They’re volunteers that come from our field of membership and serve in a volunteer capacity rather than having shareholders. Those are the high level differences between sort of banks and credit unions. It’s really membership ownership and governance.

Mat Zalk 06:19

And does governance stretch or extend to the point where they’d say, like they want to dictate or help guide the spread between the cost of deposits and the and the the price of a loan or not that far, not like intricate details of operations.

Keili McEwen 06:38

Yeah, it sort of depends on the credit union and how, you know, they how they engage their board of directors. Certainly in our case. Yeah. The answer to that question is yes. But every credit union’s a little bit different.

It’s governed a little bit differently because the, you know, the board comes from the membership. Yeah. That that looks a little bit different everywhere you go, depending on the size of the credit union, what the asset size is. You know, we’re a larger credit union. And so we have a pretty involved board in terms of governance. 

 Some credit unions don’t. But and and honestly, the asset size isn’t actually really what dictates that. It’s more leadership and institutional knowledge and how long leaders have been in their roles. And so and honestly, just the bylaws of each organization.

Mat Zalk 07:30

So how does the $6 billion of assets at TFCU stack up against other banks and credit unions, I should say nationally rather than nationally? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keili McEwen 07:42

I mean, we are one of the larger financial institutions in Oklahoma where we’re based nationally in terms of credit unions. We are a top 50 credit union Nationally. So there are, you know, credit unions that are very small, that are serving, you know, just a singular community or even could be serving just a singular select employee group or community organization. You know, you’ll see credit unions sometimes that are serving maybe just a congregation at a church or a local business, whereas some credit unions are much larger. And of course, you know, they go all the way up to Navy Federal Credit Union, which is the largest in the country and is serving, you know, millions of members across across military installations and even across the globe.

Navy has a significant presence on on some bases, you know, in the UK, in Germany, across Europe and in other places. So but we are one of the larger in the country. There are about 4600 credit unions in the US.

Mat Zalk 08:51

Would you, in terms of comparison with the commercial bank, would you expect that rates for your assets, a client’s liability, a loan, that they would be similar to commercial rates at other at other places? The competitive?

Keili McEwen 09:09

Yeah, I would say we’re certainly competitive. You know, one of the benefits of a credit union is that because we are member owned, you know, we return our revenue back to our membership. And so, you know, that is the charge of a credit union. And so we often do that by offering competitive rates on loan products, you know, and and that sort of varies because it depends on what product you’re specifically talking about. I would say our rates are very competitive in terms of of the Oklahoma environment, you know, and we offer dividends back to our members as well. And so in terms of having a product that is attractive to the consumer.

It’s often a lower rate or a higher dividend on a deposit product. And so, you know, credit unions are known for being a consumer. Financial institutions. We learn, we lean toward more. We lean more toward consumer banking than commercial banking. 

 And and that doesn’t mean we don’t do commercial banking. We certainly do. We have we do business lending here at TFCU, but most of our products are consumer facing. And you’ll find that’s the case across credit unions.

Mat Zalk 10:20

Yeah. Interesting. So if somebody did and this is not really the subject of our conversation, we’re going to delve into governmental affairs in your role as a VP of Governmental Affairs. But I do want to make sure that people can reach out to t FCU Tinker Federal Credit Union if they want to, to become a member. Where would they find out more information on the membership criteria?

What fields? I can’t remember what you call the fields of interest fields.

Keili McEwen 10:45

Yeah, fields of membership.

Mat Zalk 10:46

Fields of membership that would that would where they would qualify or not qualify to be members of the bank.

Keili McEwen 10:52

Yeah, absolutely. So tinkerfcu.org is our website. I encourage listeners to go check out our website. You can find lots of information not only about who Tinker Federal Credit Union is, but also where we’re located. We have, you know, more than 30 branches across the state of Oklahoma, as well as a few in North Texas. And so, you know, one way to learn more about who we are is to visit a branch.

We have great branch staff. They would love to visit with folks if they’re interested in, you know, getting a loan, opening an account, whatever it may be, you know, whether they want to open a share account or, or a checking account, whatever it may be. And so, tinkerfcu.org has all of the great information that listeners might like to check out.

Mat Zalk 11:39

Okay, let’s turn to you. Your role as VP of Governmental Affairs. What does that what does that mean? I don’t think we’ve had anybody on in the past that has had a title like that or has worked in that field. So what does that mean?

What do you focus your your day to day on at TFC? You doing.

Keili McEwen 11:57

Yeah. So a great question. I am am focusing most of my time on the regulatory environment for financial institutions. I read not too long ago that there are two industries in the US that are the most regulated, that is banking, financial services or healthcare. And so we have a robust regulatory environment.

And so I spend a lot of my time focused on, you know, we’re a federally regulated credit union. And so I spend a lot of my time thinking about and researching and reading and meeting with federal regulators and trying to forecast what regulatory the regulatory environment will look like, you know, six months to a year in the future and sharing that back with the leadership of my credit union, so that we’re prepared for regulatory changes that are coming down the pike. I also spend a good amount of time trying to change or amend current regulations that are cumbersome, for whatever reason, to whether it’s to the operations of the credit union, to the membership itself. And and so, you know, advocating with the regulators on behalf of the credit union and our members regarding how the regulatory environment is, is creating challenges or hurdles is a big part of my job. I do the same on the legislative side as well. 

 So I am a registered lobbyist. I work both at the Oklahoma State Capitol and the US Capitol, working with lawmakers to understand or to really educate them on what credit unions are, how we operate, what our operations look like across the state and our branch footprint and, and sort of the same thing that I talked about on the regulatory side, forecasting what’s coming down the pike. You know, I spent a lot of time, especially this week. Congress has been in recess for the last five weeks. They came back yesterday. 

 And so when they when Congress comes back into session, they release a lot of new bill text. And so I’ve been reading bills in the last 48 hours. Yeah. Well I love to read bills. So, you know, somebody’s gotta do it. 

 Right. And so this is I you know, I really actually enjoy reading legislative text, which makes me probably and one of your nerdier guests. But I am.

Mat Zalk 14:31

In the minority, I would say.

Keili McEwen 14:33

Yeah. So I’ve been reading Bill text and trying to, you know, get a sense for where Congress is headed as it relates to appropriations in the financial services space. and in the housing space as well. Of course, we do a lot of work with mortgage lending and and so some key, some key bills have been introduced in the last few days related to housing policy. And and so yeah, just I spent a lot of time doing research and reading.

And then we formulate a position on legislation and we go to Congress. And I’m actually headed to DC this week to say to members of Congress, you know, you know, hey, Mr.. Congressman, this this bill is, you know, not ideal for us. We’d like to potentially make some changes or amendments to it or even, you know, have you vote no on it or, you know, we or on the other side of that coin, you know, we love this this bill that so and so’s introduced. It’s really good for business for us. 

 And so we’d love for you to support that.

Mat Zalk 15:41

Would you be speaking to to Oklahoma representatives. Yes. Speaking to a broader pool like other representatives of other states.

Keili McEwen 15:50

So primarily Oklahoma and North Texas, members of Congress. You know, so I work with occasionally I will that will go a little broader to maybe a committee chair or or somebody who has a particular interest in an issue related to credit unions. So I’ve met with, you know, the Financial Services Committee chair who’s from Arkansas or some folks from Central Texas who introduced some legislation related to veterans lending. And, you know, so it sort of depends on the issue. But by and large, it’s Oklahoma, the Oklahoma delegation and and some folks from North Texas as well.

Mat Zalk 16:32

What’s an example of a, a piece like a specific piece of legislation. What did it want to do? What was your position? How did your advocacy change the outcome for either credit unions in Oklahoma, across the state, or the members in Oklahoma.

Keili McEwen 16:52

Yeah. So I’ll give you an example of a piece of legislation that I have I’m actively working on right now. Credit unions, by statute, by federal statute. We are capped at how much of our total asset mix can be just can be lent out through commercial lending. Because we are consumer facing financial institutions, we have a cap on our consumer, on our commercial lending side.

Mat Zalk 17:17

And that’s meaning a member comes in and they say, I’ve got all these accounts receivables. I want to borrow money against that to buy a new truck. That’d be a commercial, a commercial loan for a member of the of the credit union.

Keili McEwen 17:32

Right. So if they are going to use it for commercial purposes.

Mat Zalk 17:36

Right.

Keili McEwen 17:37

Yes. And so so we can only lend out 12.25% of Our total assets on the commercial side. And so, you know, sometimes credit unions get really close to that threshold. And so we look for creative ways to use the legislative process to help us lend more in the commercial space. And so I’ve been working with a large coalition of credit unions.

This is not unique to TFCU, but a large coalition of credit unions who specifically serve members of the military or the defense community to allow any loan that’s made to a veteran owned business to be exempt from the cap. And so if the in your example, if that gentleman came in and and he was looking for a truck, but he had served in, you know, the United States Air Force and he was a veteran and we made the loan then we would be that specific loan would be exempt from that 12.25% cap. And so that just gives us a little bit of creative flexibility to continue to serve members who there are, you know, there are lots of veterans in our field of membership because of our relationship with the military. And so and so, we’ve worked across the country with credit unions that serve on military bases to, to try to advance that legislation and, and have some movement on it. And so because I think members of Congress recognize that not only is it is it, you know, important for credit unions to have, you know, commercial lending flexibility, but also to serve a key population pocket? 

 And that is, you know, veterans who traditionally have harder, harder time accessing financial services.

Mat Zalk 19:24

And who would be on the other side of you talking to a congressman or woman and saying, I don’t think this should pass. I don’t think that this is appropriate for more than 12. What did you say, 12.25 or 12.5% of the of.

Keili McEwen 19:40

Yeah it’s 12.25%. Now on that veterans specific issue. There’s not a lot of opposition to to that specific issue. That’s the the hurdle with that specific piece of legislation is just getting it through Congress, which is hard to do for any piece of legislation, frankly. But in terms of just the cap itself, you know, commercial bankers would probably be on the other side of that issue.

Mat Zalk 20:06

Do they stand to lose that business?

Keili McEwen 20:07

Right. It’s a competitive environment, right. And everyone is competing for deposits and competing in order to make loans. And so, you know, if your business model is different than ours, but you’re in the financial institutions space, it would make sense that you would be opposed to us having a higher cap, credit unions having a higher cap, or any flexibilities as it relates to our cap.

Mat Zalk 20:31

And where does that where does your where do your lobbying efforts stand in the process? I mean, are you actively talking when you go to DC later in the week? Are. Are you active? Are you going to be talking to representatives about that legislation?

Keili McEwen 20:44

I am, yes. So this is a bill we’ve been working on for a few years when any. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of it is caught up. Yeah.

It takes a long time, unfortunately, to pass legislation, especially when you’re talking about federal legislation. Congress moves Congress moves slow until they move fast. And so we often work on legislation for it’s usually a multi-year effort to get a piece of legislation through Congress. It requires a lot of member education. You know, we for the last few months have been trying to get co-sponsors on that specific bill. 

 And so, you know, when a bill has a lot of co-sponsors, that gives it more likelihood to get across the finish line.

Mat Zalk 21:29

Further, what’s what kind of strikes me as as curious about this whole exercise is that when we hear lobbyists, I think of the movie Thank You for smoking. You think of Coca-Cola’s lobbyists, big pharma lobbyists, big corporations kind of pushing their agendas. And then there’s there’s little old like, you know, in a in a pod in a bank center in Oklahoma City. And she’s she’s pushing an agenda in a similar way on the lobbyist front. What’s the big what’s the big difference between the way big companies advocate and lobby and the way you do it?

Keili McEwen 22:07

Well. In terms of how are they different, there’s probably not a lot of differences in terms of how we’re actually the mechanics of it in terms of, you know, asking for legislation to be introduced and then, you know, pushing it along. The mechanics don’t really change. Now, what does change is the the sort of number of lobbyists, the political muscle, if you will, that, that a big company might have compared to a credit union. Even though we’re a large credit union, you know, we’re still not as large as some of the corporations that you may be referencing. And so so the difference is that I am a one man shop here at TFCU.

I do all of our state and federal lobbying, advocacy, regulatory affairs, political affairs on my own. And and so, you know, a big company might have multiple lobbyists and have areas of practice where, you know, you might have somebody on a team that just does regulatory affairs or just as state government affairs. Now, I have done contract lobbying in the past, where I was representing multiple corporations and in just in Oklahoma and, and working with large lobbying teams. And so that’s that’s often the difference is really just the size of the team and then presence in DC. You I’m obviously in Oklahoma City. 

 I’m not in DC. I have to travel back and forth. Yeah. And so, you know, being in DC has some advantages for sure. I’ve lived in DC and being there on the ground creates some real advantages because, you know, you’re available. 

 Sure. To meet with members of Congress or regulators when it’s convenient for them, and not just when you can get on an airplane. And so that’s, I would say, the other real advantage that a big corporation might have is, is they probably spread their team out across.

Mat Zalk 24:10

One other thought I had is that there’s a, there’s a it strikes me that there could be a, a significant free rider problem in this, in this model of what you’re doing. If I owned a credit union and I knew that Keili was from TFCU was going to be doing the lobbying work anyways, and that I would benefit from that lobbying work, which we’re aligned. We’re both in the same business. We both agree that this should happen, that veterans should be entitled to to getting commercial loans that don’t bump me up against a threshold limit of of assets that I’ve got. I would say, why would I pay for my own lobbyist when I know that Keili’s out there doing the doing the good work for me, fighting the good fight for me.

Is there does that happen? I mean, are there I would suspect that not everybody, not every credit union has a an advocacy team and they’re still free writing. They’re they’re benefiting from the hard work that you’re doing. And if that does happen, it it kind of it it begs the next question in, in our business where I think it’d be interesting to have a, a VP of governmental affairs. Why would I do that? 

 I’m just a small business, and I could afford a person that, you know, lobbies on behalf of our industry concerns. But I’d be I’d be foolish almost to do it, knowing that everybody else in the business would. All of my competitors. Friendly as friendly though they may be, would also benefit. And I’m covering the cost of the salary. 

 So what do we what do you say to to to leaders of businesses that are listening, who think maybe it’d be a good idea to have a public affairs and advocacy role in their organization, but, you know, don’t necessarily want to cover that burden all alone.

Keili McEwen 25:47

Well, that’s a really interesting question. And and it’s actually an excellent point. First of all, the premise of the question. It happens in every industry. It happens all of the time.

Where, you know, a smaller entity in an industry may say, you know, I know that the larger entity is going to cover this issue on our behalf. Now what I will my response to that is that while that may be the case, I only represent tfxas interests. And so, you know what happens in a meeting with a lawmaker when it comes to a policy decision? You know, that conversation between me and that lawmaker is only going to be framed in kefka’s interest. And so while there may be a lot of alignment between, you know, our credit union and all of the other credit unions in the in the state, I can’t guarantee that will always be the case. 

 Right. And I certainly can’t advocate for it would be completely unethical for me to advocate for another credit union’s interest and to represent them in any way. And so, you know, a lot of what I do is education. I’m educating the lawmaker on what a credit union is, how the policy proposal that, you know, of the day, whatever it is we’re talking about, whether they’ve authored it or it’s coming up for a vote, how that impacts TFCU. And so I share a lot of what I do is I share a lot of data, I do a lot of talking to lawmakers about, you know, if you pass this bill, then, you know, this is how many people are going to be impacted or this is how our business is going to be impacted financially or whatever it may be. 

 And so when I’m advocating for TFCU, And if I’m not being if I’m not representing the other, you know, credit unions in Oklahoma, then I can’t I can’t share their data. I can’t share their story. I can’t talk about how they’re serving their members. And so while the outcome may benefit them to the point you made it, it is a it is a disservice to the to your business to not think about how do you plug in. And a professional advocate or a lobbyist to really represent you in that meeting, to make sure your business is the one being talked about, your consumer is the one being talked about, and your data is the data being shared. 

 Now, there are lots of great contract lobbyists and trade associations in the state of Oklahoma and across the country that do that kind of work for businesses of all sizes. And so I would encourage anyone who’s listening, who thinks, I would love to have somebody on my team who can advance, you know, Or defend against laws that we that we need or regulations that we need to create an, you know, optimized operating environment. I would encourage them to look at what are some other resources they might be able to bring to bear outside of just having somebody internal, like like I am internal here at TFCU, but there are lots of people who do this kind of work on contract and some great lobbyists actually, in Oklahoma that do contract work. And then there are also just some really outstanding trade associations that your business like yours could become members of and really plug into.

Mat Zalk 29:05

Right. We have we have Nar from the National Association of Residential Property Management that advocates on our behalf. So yeah, I see that for sure. In terms of in terms of member organizations, I, I couldn’t help but think, as you were talking, there’s this germane topic of tariffs and it’s very controversial, and I don’t need to get into the controversy of it, but I would imagine that steel manufacturers, anybody that’s competing, Let’s talk about, I don’t know, milk coming from Canada, I have no clue. But if you’re a milk manufacturer in the United States, you would have an advocacy arm that would be saying, yes, President Trump, we really do think this tariff is super important.

And saying ra ra ra, the trade imbalance is so significant that we need to we need to put a tariff on Canadian milk. Do you get the sense because you have a behind the scenes view in a certain sense that we don’t as as laypeople, we just do not see the legislative processes closely. We don’t see the advocacy processes closely. Do you get the sense that, that some of or that a significant portion of the decisions that we see being made on by legislators, by by the president, that we see headlines of, are driven by advocates in a significant way? Or is it oftentimes just the true belief of a of a policymaker that this should be the way on principle and it gets pushed without much interference from from advocates on either side.

Keili McEwen 30:33

Yes, I actually I think it’s both. So I think there are lots of decisions that are made on Capitol Hill and at the state capitols across the country that are, you know, completely based on principle and delivering often on campaign promises. You know, elected officials have to run for office. And so they make lots of promises to their constituents and the good ones uphold those promises or at least try to. And so there’s a lot of principle to to the, the legislative and governance process.

However, there are often lots of proposals and initiatives that are being advanced that are coming from, you know, folks like me who are going to Capitol Hill and meeting with members of Congress and saying, you know, have you thought about this, this have you x you know, if you think about X, it creates a competitive advantage for our industry, whether we’re competing globally or complete competing state to state, wherever it may be. And so there are certainly lots of of proposals that are introduced in advance through the legislative or regulatory process that are driven by people who who are subject matter experts. You know, lobby lobbyists certainly have can have sort of a bad reputation. And that, you know, thank you for smoking hasn’t helped with that. But it great, terrible.

Mat Zalk 32:02

Terrible movie. I advise everybody not not to watch it.

Keili McEwen 32:05

Right. But it’s you know, there are tons of lobbyists in this country who are lobbying for good and who are working on very purposeful and principled issues and and really trying, you know, to help people, you know, in our case, advance economically, you know, whether that means they need to buy a car or a home or whatever it might be. And so. and so. You know, lawmakers are often not subject matter experts in our field. There are not very many members of Congress who know a whole lot about credit unions or even banking, for that matter.

And so, you know, there the number of members of Congress who served in or worked in a bank or, or even were leadership in a bank before they went to Congress, are are very few. Yeah, there are few, but there are not very many in the entire body. And so.

Mat Zalk 32:58

And that’s and that would that would hold true for technology and farming and military and everything else they have to any industry. They’re not they’re not subject experts in much beyond whatever they did before they were legislating.

Keili McEwen 33:11

That’s right. And so as folks, you know, serve on different committees or they move up maybe in the leadership ranks of their party or their or their specific chamber, you know, and are in a position to really advance policy. They really rely on folks like me to come in and say, you know, have you considered. You know, maybe introducing a bill that would make the regulatory environment easier for us to operate in. You know, compliance costs are really high for us as an industry right now.

Have you thought about streamlining? You know, maybe X, you know, piece of legislation to make it easier for us to do business or to lend to a consumer, whatever it may be. And so, yeah, the subject matter expertise that lobbyists develop in representing different entities and industries is really important. And certainly I think there’s a bulk of of legislation that comes from, you know, in my business, we also be very creative. I have to think about how do I move the needle? 

 Sure. It’s a competitive, noisy environment. And so if I want to move the needle, how how do I maneuver strategically around Washington DC to try to move things forward? that can be tough.

Mat Zalk 34:25

Do you find that the argument that compliance is very expensive falls on deaf ears? Or is that something that people are are sensitive to? I mean, I could imagine a legislator saying it’s the cost of doing business. You want it, you got to stay compliant. And on the other hand, you might say, well, we have to maintain a margin or margin is thin.

So if you force us to be compliant and we it costs us more, we have to pass that on to the consumer. So it’s affecting in our case 465,000 members, etc.. Is that I mean, because in our industry, compliance is a big thing also not nearly what pharmaceuticals, healthcare and banking is, but we have to pay all these fees. We have to be members of different realtor boards and our local, you know, real estate commission. They fee us at every angle. 

 And I would think that that arguing that those fees are cumbersome and, you know, thinning of our margin would, would like fall flat, so to speak.

Keili McEwen 35:25

Yeah. So there’s really a line, I think, to that argument because, you know, we understand that, you know, our number one responsibility to our members is to be safe and sound. And so, you know, when they put their money here on deposit, they expect that it will stay here and that we will not fail and that we will, you know, ensure that their money is is going to be there for the long term, that it’s insured, that it’s well invested. And so safety and soundness is is our number one job. And that requires some compliance certainly with the regulatory with the regulator whether you’re state or federal. And so it can fall on deaf ears if you get too far over that line.

You know, now where we try to the space we try to operate from a from an advocacy space is is where it goes over the line where it’s, you know, there are certainly regulators who have gone way beyond safety and soundness oversight and our, you know, enforcing penalties on financial institutions in inappropriate or, or ways, they don’t even have statutory, statutory authority to do so. And so, you know that those are often the arguments that we’re making that, you know, there comes a point in time where we are responsible for so much compliance that it is starting to thin our margins and we aren’t able to return, you know, our money back to our, you know, our membership base or a consumer base because we’re spending so much money on on these regulatory schemes that different administrations have put in place. And so we prefer, you know, a lighter regulatory environment because of compliance. But certainly we know that, you know, compliance is also a part of doing business in the financial services space. So you never find us advocating for. 

 No. You know, no regulations or no compliance costs, right? We just want balance, right?

Mat Zalk 37:33

I want to put you on the hot seat and ask about some very specific property management topics, and how you may consider advising those of us in the property management space to to counteract some some things that I don’t agree with. But before I do that, I want to turn to the topic of influence. I mean, advocacy is at its core influence and how you influence people. And so I wanted to know you’ve been in public policy advocacy for almost two decades, if I’m not wrong. And I wanted to to pull out from you some of the biggest lessons that you’ve learned about influence wielding it, channeling it, and and making it work for you.

Keili McEwen 38:19

Well, that’s a great question. I, I actually recently had an opportunity to hear a long time colleague speak to a group of young professionals, and she was asked a similar question, and she gave what I thought was a really a really great but incredibly simple answer. But I think it is the right answer, and that is that influence, when it comes down to it, is really about about having common sense and, and a little bit of kind of street smart, if you will. And so when I’m talking to a lawmaker, it’s really important that I understand who they are. You know what makes them tick?

What you know, what were their campaign promises? How did they get elected? How long have they served in, in, you know, whatever role they might be in? And what are they trying to do, what’s on their personal agenda? And if I can understand that, what makes that person tick and I can connect to it, then that is often kind of the secret sauce of influence. 

 Now I also need to know my stuff. I need to show up to the meeting and understand what it is that I’m advocating for, and why, and how to explain it in a way that connects to that lawmaker. And so, you know, it’s it’s sort of being on both sides of that coin. You’ve got to really understand who that lawmaker is. And so as you can imagine, I spent a lot of time building relationships and thinking about relationships and following what, you know, lawmakers are saying and what they’re writing about, what they’re you know, what op ed they placed in the newspaper, what they’re posting on social media. 

 But I also spent a lot of face time with them and and listen to the things that they talk about. Do they talk about, you know, their kids? Are they interested in economic development or, or whatever it may be, so that when I show up in the in that room and I want to influence that lawmaker, I can connect the issue of the day to whatever it is that makes them tick. And so and and that you know, you’re right. I’ve worked in this business for, for just over 20 years, which is sort of remarkable to me that I’ve been in this business so long. 

 But I, I have found that that is the most meaningful way to advance public policy, because at the end of the day, elected officials are people, right? They ran for office because they believed in a better a better state, if you will, for our country, for the state of Oklahoma, the state of Texas. And so if I can connect those dots for them, I can often move the needle. Now, sometimes that takes a really long time. But but yeah, that’s that’s a big part of influence.

Mat Zalk 41:05

Before before the, the hot seat that I’m going to put you on which is going to be very tough, by the way. I want to make that clear.

Keili McEwen 41:10

I can’t wait.

Mat Zalk 41:11

I want to ask one more question. Is there any do you have any secrets to transitioning a conversation From the niceties, the pleasantries with a with a representative that you’re dealing with. How are the kids, how are you know, how are your, I don’t know, campaign promises going whatever you’d say, like on a on a very superficial level to like, let’s get down, we’re going to transition to getting down to business. And I’m going to tell you about TFCU and what I need from you, what I need you to know about this legislation. Is there any do you have any any quick switches?

Keili McEwen 41:40

Yeah. So first of all, I’ll tell you that I often will tell the lawmaker before I come to their office what I’m going to be there to talk about. And because in my business, you know, being honest is really critical. You know, it is incredibly important to be trustworthy and to, you know, to even if the conversation is going to be a tough one, to be really honest and open and upfront about about what you’re there to talk about, because your word is everything in the lobbying business. Right. And I’m sure that’s the case for many industries.

But, you know, once you’ve lied to a lawmaker or represented a position differently than than the business who hired you wanted you to, then you know, it’s hard to it’s hard to recover from that. And so I will often let the lawmaker know in advance. So before I schedule the meeting, I’ll say, you know, I’d like to come visit with you about, you know, the credit Card Competition Act, which is something that all financial institutions are opposed to, you know, does all financial institutions are opposed to that, to that specific proposal. And so, so that they know coming. You know, when I sit down, we’re going to I’m going to say hello, I’m going to talk to them about, you know, their son who, you know, plays football for the local high school. 

 But then I’m going to reach a point in the conversation where I’m going to say, you know, listen, I know you’re you’re the author of the Credit Card Competition Act, and, you know, that’s a bill we oppose. So let me tell you why. And that’s where, you know, to the point I made in the last question, where I’ve got to know my stuff, I’ve got to be able to walk the lawmaker through why, you know, my institution is opposed to a specific piece of legislation and, and be really ready to present that position and, and why it’s bad for business for us. And, and I’ve also got to be ready for tough questions. So I gotta have a thick skin in this business, especially if they authored the bill. 

 Yeah, yeah, I it’s never fun to tell a Bill author that you don’t like their bill, but it’s always the right thing to do. It is always the right thing to do. Yeah.

Mat Zalk 43:59

It’s tough conversation. Okay, now the hot seat. Now the hot seat. Property management very specific to property managers. We are we’re kind of stuck in this weird spot where we are often considered realtors or agents brokers, whatever the nomenclature is for a specific state.

And yet we don’t do any much, if any, of the traditional work of a real estate agent. So we have to know property management. We need to know leases and landlord Tenant Act landlord tenant law. But we’re not doing traditional sale documents. We’re not doing disclosures and bunch of other stuff yet we’re treated like we do. 

 We’ve got to follow all of the regulatory frameworks, all the continuing education specific to to real estate agents. And we have to be, of course, real estate agents, which comes with significant fees and a bunch of other stuff that we’re you know, if you’re a real estate agent and you sell a $100,000 house, you may make $3, $30,000 and you may take some portion of that. Your broker is going to take some portion of that, but that 20,000 that’s left in your pocket covers the fees 20 times over that you have to pay. We’re not in that position. We don’t make that yet. 

 We are all bound by the same legislation and the same the same laws. It is. It’s complex. There are obligations that are that don’t make any sense to us. And they’re sometimes designed for like, larger institutions and not, you know, small businesses like us. 

 What’s the right angle to push to to advocate for ensuring that there are professional standards associated with property management, but that they’re not the same ones that are imposed upon real estate agents or realtors. If you’re a member of the National Association of Realtors, that. Just rightsizing the legislation so that you’re not encumbered by all the stuff that you have to do when you are doing transactions and handling assets, hundreds of thousands of dollars of somebody’s primary residence or millions of dollars somebody’s primary residence.

Keili McEwen 46:01

Yeah. So that’s a great question. I would so I would advise that the very first thing that it’s incumbent upon property managers to do is to, is to go build relationships with lawmakers and tell the very story that you just told. You know, I thought what you just said was very compelling. And so, you know, getting in into a lawmaker’s office and saying, you know, this is a little bit about our business model and here’s why it’s different than realtors.

And this is how, you know, either the the laws that you’re advancing or the regulations that are being proposed by, you know, state agencies or whoever it may be, are creating a really cumbersome operating environment for you. Would you be willing to work with us on making some changes to kind of rightsize the law so that we are, you know, not subject to statutory or regulatory or statutory or regulatory environment? That doesn’t make sense for us, you know, and so, you know, that’s a lot of what I do for, for a credit union is talk about, you know, how is a credit union different than a bank. And how does right size or one size fits all approach not always work for financial institutions. And how can we rightsize some of those regulations. 

 And so I would encourage you to do the same. The most important thing that you can do as an industry, you know, that you, Mat, could do, is look up who represents you in the Oklahoma state legislature and, you know, look that person up online. There should be their contact information, should be readily available to you as a constituent. And reach out to them and say, hey, I’m a property manager, I’m based in Tulsa. I have some concerns about the statutory environment that we work under. 

 Can we grab a cup of coffee? I’d like to tell you a little bit about my business. I’d like to tell you a little bit about why we’re different than realtors, and see if, you know, you might have some ideas for how we could advance legislation that might might change that. And, you know, and and no, just show up once in a meeting with that lawmaker but continuously and and really educate the folks that represent you to on on what is optimal for your business. And my guess is that over time, you’ll build some real champions and the legislature that say, you know what, I’ve got a I’ve got a group of property managers that I represent. 

 And, and they’re having a hard time with the, the legal environment that we’ve created for them or the compliance environment. And so I’m going to propose some changes to the law. And, you know, that can really make a difference. I would also encourage you to talk about that publicly. You know, public opinion, especially in the environment we’re in now, where governments are becoming incredibly complex and very difficult to navigate and really takes a lot of subject matter expertise. 

 You know, public opinion is still one of the things that will cut through that noise and really sway a A lawmaker or a group of lawmakers opinion on a piece of legislation. And so, you know, telling that story to the lawmaker and building that relationship is really important, but also sharing it publicly so that people understand the differences in your business model versus others. Is is really important. And there are lots of ways you can do that.

Mat Zalk 49:27

Would you, would you?

Keili McEwen 49:28

This podcast is one of them probably.

Mat Zalk 49:29

Yeah, yeah for sure. Would you encourage me to form a little coalition of other property managers to, to, you know, enlisting their support and doing the same?

Keili McEwen 49:38

Yeah, absolutely. I think anytime that you can, you know, there’s there’s definitely power in numbers. And so anytime that you can say, you know, this is important to my business, but it’s also important to these 30 other businesses in the Tulsa market. And so, you know, we’re not just standing alone here, but this is is a real it’s either a threat or a growing problem for an entire industry. Then, you know, that speaks certainly a lot louder.

And if each you know, if that coalition can come together and, you know, come up with an agenda of policy ideas that you’d like to advance or defeat, and then also, you know, each of those folks can in that coalition, can build a relationship with their lawmakers and influence public opinion with their constituents and the public. Yeah, I think that that there’s a lot of power in in doing that. And it’s how you get things advanced at the state Capitol. So absolutely.

Mat Zalk 50:39

I’m gonna do it. It’s going to be a long uphill battle, but I’m going to do it. I’m gonna get I’m gonna get my friend Tracy Strike from Renner’s place. I’m going to call him right after this, and I’m going to put together the first two members of our coalition. Keili McEwen serves as the Vice President of Governmental Affairs at Tinker Federal Credit Union. tinkerfcu.org.

It’s Oklahoma’s largest credit union. In this role, she leads all state and federal advocacy, legislative strategy and political engagement on behalf of the $6 billion dollar financial institution with more than two decades of experience in public policy, political strategy and coalition building. Keili brings a forward thinking approach to influence rooted in principle and purpose. And we talked about some of that influence here on the pod. 

Keili is a trailblazer and credit union advocacy. She was the first in-house lobbyist for a nonprofit financial institution in Oklahoma, and her leadership has helped shape the future of credit union policy, while ensuring the voices of members and mission driven institutions are effectively represented in government. Keili. We so appreciate you being on the show, educating us, as I said for the first time on advocacy and creating or shaping public policy.

Keili McEwen 51:49

Mat, glad to do it. Thank you so much for inviting me to be a guest. This was a lot of fun. I appreciate your time today.

Mat Zalk 51:54

Take care.

Outro 51:57

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