In this episode of The Same Day Podcast, host Mat Zalk is joined by Skyler Walker, President and CEO of Coyote Property Management, to discuss the struggles and rewards of modern property management. They explore why vacancy is more expensive than most owners realize, how misaligned price expectations impact leasing, and what today’s rent trends mean for investors. Skyler also shares advice on building stronger vendor and resident relationships.
The Real Struggles and Rewards of Modern Property Management With Skyler Walker
Skyler Walker is the President and CEO of Coyote Property Management, a Tulsa-based firm specializing in full-service management for single-family, multifamily, and commercial properties across Oklahoma. He has scaled portfolios by several multiples, implemented advanced leasing and maintenance systems, and built a reputation for operational excellence and client-focused service. A US Marine Corps Captain in the reserves, Skyler brings strong discipline, leadership, and a focus on organizational growth to his work. He’s also an active real estate investor and committed community supporter who enjoys sharing practical insights on property management trends and strategies.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [03:33] How Skyler Walker rises above the unusually low expectations in property management
- [05:28] The industry’s reputation problem and the opportunity it creates
- [08:16] Why long-term vendors walk away over small payment delays
- [13:24] What’s really driving today’s flat or declining rental market
- [20:15] The real cost of DIY renovations and extended vacancy
- [24:50] How Skyler became a homeowner and landlord at the same time
- [33:02] Why owners often turn to professionals only after DIY leasing fails
In this episode…
Property management looks deceptively simple from the outside — collect rent, fix a few things, keep the peace. But behind the scenes, it’s a daily juggling act filled with shifting market pressures, demanding vendors, and residents whose expectations change with every economic headline. So what does it really take to run a modern property management company without burning out?
According to Skyler Walker, a seasoned real estate investor and small-business operator, the answer starts with acknowledging that the job is both a grind and a calling. Drawing from his experience navigating everything from vendor frustrations to uneven rent trends, Skyler explains that the biggest challenge isn’t just the workload — it’s the breadth of responsibilities and the low expectations set by years of inconsistent industry standards. For Skyler, success comes from setting clear expectations, educating owners on the true cost of vacancy, and keeping long-term stability at the center of every decision.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Yonatan Schmidt on LinkedIn
- Mat Zalk on LinkedIn
- Keyrenter Property Management
- Keyrenter Property Management in Tulsa | Oklahoma City | Arkansas
- Keyrenter Property Management email address: [email protected]
- Chris Lile State Farm
- Skyler Walker on LinkedIn
- Coyote Property Management: Website | Facebook | Instagram | Phone # (918) 880-3007
- “The Elements of a Profitable Real Estate Investment Firm” with Will Karstetter on The Same Day Podcast
- The Gap and The Gain: The High Achievers’ Guide to Happiness, Confidence, and Success by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy
- Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business by Gino Wickman
- Rocket Fuel: The One Essential Combination That Will Get You More of What You Want from Your Business by Gino Wickman and Mark C. Winters
- Bringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six M.I.T. Students Who Took Vegas for Millions by Ben Mezrich
- The Circle Series 4-in-1: The Complete Series Including Black, Red, White, and Green by Ted Dekker
- I’m Staying with My Boys: The Heroic Life of Sgt. John Basilone, USMC by Jim Proser and Jerry Cutter
- Tim Jackson on LinkedIn
- AppFolio
- Twilio
Quotable Moments
- “I would say yes and no. It’s it’s a tough it can be a very tough industry if you truly want to do a good job.”
- “It’s a grind, isn’t it? It really is, and it’s so it’s so broad in general.”
- “I actually get the the transaction issue more so with vendors. They’re like, hey, you pay me.”
- “Yeah, 100% vacancy is brutally expensive, and that’s always my my guidance to owners who are like, yeah, we I think we’re about $150 like under rented.”
- “Let’s get this thing on the market.”
Action Steps
- Prioritize vendor communication and expectations: Clear, consistent communication reduces misunderstandings, prevents delays, and strengthens long-term relationships essential for smooth property operations.
- Set realistic rent expectations with owners: Transparent pricing discussions help prevent extended vacancies and support better financial outcomes for both owners and managers.
- Track vacancy costs before making leasing decisions: Understanding the actual financial impact of turnover ensures smarter choices that preserve cash flow and asset value.
- Standardize maintenance and billing workflows: Structured processes reduce errors, speed up approvals, and improve trust between managers, vendors, and residents.
- Focus on long-term resident retention: Keeping reliable tenants minimizes turnover expenses, reduces risk, and creates stability in both revenue and property performance.
Sponsor for this episode…
Chris Lile at State Farm Insurance:
This episode is brought to you by Chris Lile at State Farm Insurance.
Chris Lile at State Farm helps you protect your most precious assets and investments, including home and auto.
To learn more about how you can save double digits on all your insurance needs, visit diallile.com or call Chris’ office at 918-878-7771.
Keyrenter Property Management:
This episode is also brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management.
Keyrenter Property Management is a full-service property management company that helps clients buy, renovate, and operate real estate assets.
The team helps clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management.
That’s why, no matter what rental you have — single-family homes, condos, townhomes, or apartments — they can give you the management solutions you need.
To learn more about their services, go to https://keyrenterpmc.com/ or send them an email at [email protected].
Episode Transcript
Intro 00:04
Welcome to The Same Day Podcast, where we discuss driving incremental business growth and other topics related to real estate, property management and entrepreneurship. Now to the show at hand.
Mat Zalk 00:21
Mat Zalk here, I’m the host of The Same Day Podcast where we connect with top business experts in real estate leaders. Past guests include Will Karstetter, who actually used to work with Skyler. Our guest today. Go back and check out that show for an interesting perspective on acquisitions, flipping, and the property management world. Today’s episode is brought to you by Chris Lile at State Farm.
Chris Lile at State Farm helps you protect your most precious assets and investments, whether it’s your home and auto investment, rental properties, or other valuables called Chris Lile at State Farm. For a quick and painless phone call to potentially save you double digits on all your insurance needs, that’s diallile.com or call his office at (918) 878-7771. Today’s episode is also brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management. At Keyrenter Property Management, we are a full service property management company helping our clients buy, renovate and operate real estate assets. We help our clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management.
Go to keyrenterpmc.com or email us at [email protected]. Today’s guest is Skyler Walker. He’s a real estate investor, small business owner, marine reservist and husband to his beautiful wife and father of three amazing children. When he’s not serving his clients, he’s training for high rocks, mountain biking, or finding a project around the house to consider finishing.
Born and raised in Oklahoma and a graduate of Jenks High School, Skyler is looking to add value to his community through real estate and just being a good dude. Skyler Walker, welcome to the show.
Skyler Walker 01:53
Happy to be here.
Mat Zalk 01:56
I mean, I think the first thing we should talk about is your technical issues. We’ve been on zoom for a decade, bro.
Skyler Walker 02:04
Yeah, I don’t usually headphone and and zoom, and I thought, you know what? Matt deserves just a higher level of audio. And so I thought I’d. I’d plug him in and it proved to be a feat.
Mat Zalk 02:23
But I don’t understand how are people how are your residents and your owners calling you right now? Not on zoom. You have another you have another platform that you use so that they’re not blowing up your personal cell at all hours of the night and day.
Skyler Walker 02:38
Yeah, it it does forward to my personal cell. But yeah, through a CRM we use Twilio, which is behind basically the VoIP behind our CRM, which is aptly and.
Mat Zalk 02:53
But if you if somebody forwards their call.
Skyler Walker 02:55
When it comes.
Mat Zalk 02:56
If the call forwards to you and then you hit that you’re in the middle of a meeting with somebody, you press that off button. It says you’ve reached the voicemail. No, it just says, please leave a message for 918XXXXXXX. Then they’ve got your personal cell phone number which is not ideal, right?
Skyler Walker 03:16
No. So I actually have a Google Voice number that it’s tied to.
Mat Zalk 03:20
Got it.
Skyler Walker 03:21
Which is set up on my phone. So I’ve got like yeah, got a few phases of.
Skyler Walker 03:27
Gotta get through. Gotta get through a couple of layers. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Mat Zalk 03:33
What is going on in the property management world? I mean, let’s just for context, Skyler and I have traveled to industry conferences together, have sat down for many a coffee and hung out. And we always talk shop, talk talk, property management, business talk investing, real estate. What are you seeing? What are you seeing in the property management world?
Is it hard out there for a For a property manager.
Skyler Walker 03:59
I would say yes and no. It’s it’s a tough it can be a very tough industry if you truly want to do a good job. I think property management in general is it’s it’s a lot.
Skyler Walker 04:12
It’s a grind, isn’t it?
Mat Zalk 04:14
It’s a grind.
Skyler Walker 04:15
It really is. And it’s so it’s so broad in general. Right. And then if you try to define what services do and don’t cover, then some people like that or don’t like that or they’ve already been used and abused. So they’re like, yeah, I just didn’t really expect much from you.
And they’re like, oh, you do a really great job. Right.
Skyler Walker 04:31
That’s actually great.
Mat Zalk 04:32
Very it’s a low expectation bar to to exceed okay.
Skyler Walker 04:37
Generally speaking yeah I find that the bar is low. Low oftentimes because hopefully nobody’s offended. But it’s it’s older realtors brokers whatever that have said. Yes I’ll manage your property and they have 5000 doors, whatever. And they just are barely there.
Skyler Walker 04:59
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 04:59
And they do it for clients. And then you finally go to somebody who actually built a business, does this for a living, and they’re like, oh, wow, this is what property management is supposed to be. I always wonder why you guys charge a little bit more.
Skyler Walker 05:13
Right.
Mat Zalk 05:13
Here we go. Let me explain a couple of thoughts on that one. I’d prefer to call our our friends more tenured, greater tenured real estate professionals.
Skyler Walker 05:25
That’s very well.
Mat Zalk 05:28
We don’t want to be ageist. Number two, the challenge with the in the state of the industry and also the potential opportunity for folks like us that have built specific dedicated property management companies is that the reputation is terrible. So in our system, in that folio, for example, if I put in your banking details today and send you an ACH. It will take seven days to get to you. When I trigger that first payment after a month of sending payments, even if it’s just one payment, it’ll come to you next day.
When I explain that to people, they don’t. They hear it, but they don’t remember that this is going to happen. So I’ll get a call after four days and be like, hey, where’s where’s the money go? And I’m like, is the thought that you think that I’m actually stealing that $1,100, that I lied to you that about it coming. And I think the truth is, in so much in many corners of our industry with many operators, they’re like, hey, Skyler, I sent that check and the check just never got sent, or I sent that ACH and it just never got sent.
And I’m like, well, you got confirmation from our system. The moment I trigger that payment, you get a confirmation. And you remember I told you it was going to take seven days, maybe take six, maybe it takes five, but it’s going to take a bunch of days the first time. And so that’s the challenge, is that when we have all these people writing checks instead of ACH ING directly into your account, and the US Postal Service has developed a reputation. I won’t comment on it, but it has developed a reputation for being not the most efficient or accurate delivery service.
It may never show up. And so yeah, it’s kind of funny to say, like there’s a low, low threshold and it’s easy to exceed that. But it’s also like it damages the reputation, which is why I think my approach, you know, and we’ve had Tracy strike on the podcast. We’ve had other property managers. We were happy to have Coyote PM on like we are.
We’re allies in this thing. The more people that have their properties professionally managed, the fewer residents you and I are going to have to re coach and explain why a late fees, a late fee and like we can’t differentiate because somebody is one color or one disability or one this or one like we have to apply rules evenly across the board. So welcome welcome. You’re doing you’re doing God’s work.
Skyler Walker 07:50
Thank you.
Skyler Walker 07:52
What? It feels.
Skyler Walker 07:53
Like it.
Skyler Walker 07:53
You know.
Mat Zalk 07:55
It’s a grind. I mean, I think most people don’t recognize. They kind of say, what are you charging a fee for? It’s like, well, man, there are a lot of moving parts to property management, to keeping a tenant happy.
Skyler Walker 08:03
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 08:06
Yeah. Big time.
Skyler Walker 08:07
What are you seeing?
Skyler Walker 08:07
I actually get the the transaction issue more so with vendors. They’re like, hey, you pay me. I’m like, yeah, every week. Literally every week.
Skyler Walker 08:16
Every week, every week. But you know, every week, you know, what’s crazy.
Mat Zalk 08:20
Is like, you may pay a vendor every week for five years. And then one Thursday we deploy on Thursday and they get the checks on Friday, one Thursday. This used to happen. This doesn’t happen anymore because there are multiple safeguards where people are like harassing. Like did you pay, did you pay, did you pay?
But it used to happen. One Thursday I’d have a meeting into a dinner and I would forget to make the payment by. I think we have to do by 9:00 is the threshold to cutoff. I’ve got to do it by 859 or else it doesn’t get said. And the number of vendors that will call and harass you for their four, six, $800.
And I’m like, guys, we’ve paid you $1,000 a week for five years. You didn’t set aside $5 per pay period, so that in the event that this happened, you would be okay. I promise you, the money will be there Monday. And I’m really sorry. And sometimes we have guys, like, run into the bank to get the money and then we, you know, they reimburse us or we take it.
It’s like insanity. But this I guess, is, you know, even for well-paid vendors, I guess it’s just. Yeah, it’s really a challenge of living in the USA with inflation at insane rates lately.
Skyler Walker 09:30
Yeah, I’ve lost vendors over.
Skyler Walker 09:34
Tell me about that. I’m like.
Skyler Walker 09:37
Yeah. There was just a couple guys in particular where we kind of had a pretty good agreement going to where, you know, hey, we’re going to give you a good amount of work to get a fair rate. That’s always the case, right? And that’s that’s what we get to do as property managers in order to better serve the client. Right.
But. Yeah, there was a couple issues with vendor was like confused on whether he did or didn’t bill a couple a couple invoices and they, you know, and then it was like, hey, we paid all these, send them the statements. And he was like, well, all of a sudden after several months of using them. Well, this just takes too long. And I was like, oh, okay.
Well it’s crazy. It’s been it’s been fine for the past, you know, 4 or 5 months. Right. And and he just said, well, you know, I just if you guys can’t pay us a little quicker, like we’re we’re gonna have to work something out.
Skyler Walker 10:33
How often do you pay.
Skyler Walker 10:34
If it’s in by.
Skyler Walker 10:36
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 10:36
Every Wednesday.
Skyler Walker 10:37
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 10:38
Every week. Weekly. Like without fail. Yeah. So I think.
there was a little more to it than just the. How long it takes, right, for the ACH to hit his account. And it seems like it almost like maybe some banks take even a little bit longer to.
Skyler Walker 10:58
Well, but that that’s true.
Mat Zalk 11:00
If people complain about the deposit taking multiple days, it’s their bank that’s holding it. Like, I know because I’m an owner, I’m an owner in our portfolio. And when my portfolio.
Skyler Walker 11:11
Right.
Mat Zalk 11:12
Pays out its annual its monthly distribution, it hits the next day, the next business day. So you can test it on your own bank and see if you’re using chime or Y Street or some other kind of weird systems, or if you have your if you have your like, it’s going through your cash app routing and account number. They’re going to hold it for the float for sure. No doubt about it. Because they’re paying you one or 2 or 3 days less interest on that on that money.
So they’re going to hold it. And if you just call them and harass them, they think it’s you. And you’re like, well, let me explain. I paid $190,000 worth of invoices this week, and I’ve had you call me. I’m pretty sure it’s not me or Appfolio.
So anyways, that definitely can be. That definitely can be a challenge. And I also find like when we get occasionally an email from a the accounts receivables department of of a vendor and they’ll say the following checks haven’t been paid. Can you give us an update? And I’m like at glory in my work wife who’s been with us for eight years, I’m like, can you please help this person understand where these checks are?
And I just you get an email back that says so and so, check or ach pay this date, ACH paid this day, and it’ll be with a bunch of other payments that they receive. They’re not they’re not contesting in one batch of payments. There are five payments and they’re not contesting four of the five but one they’re contesting. I’m like, oh yeah, sorry, I’ve got to go back and actually reconcile my books. I’m like, guys, get it together, use the software, Use the software.
Skyler Walker 12:42
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Or just or just update it. Right. Like just get pinged. Invoice still still do you know.
And it’s like I’ve, I’ve paid this for this so long ago. Like just update it in the system, you know? Please. Because now I have to go through, you know, this small shop like I have to go through and double check, like, did I pay them I don’t know, I don’t remember. Right.
Skyler Walker 13:05
So is that switching.
Skyler Walker 13:07
Up time in my.
Skyler Walker 13:08
Day. Totally.
Mat Zalk 13:09
And you’re like going from software, all your logins. Everyone is 25 seconds and a bunch of switching costs. What are you seeing on rents out there? I keep reading these reports that like rents are flat down across the country. It’s hard days on market up.
Skyler Walker 13:24
Yeah I think yeah I think we’re just kind of following the, the sales market a little bit. You know, I always try to put my foot in my mouth there. But I’ve always felt like, you know, it’s been inflated for a while and I’ve been kind of waiting for a correction, right? Money is really expensive to borrow right now. And so, you know, if it’s not moving, it ends up eventually affecting the renter.
I mean, you know, it’s it starts to have economical impact.
Skyler Walker 14:05
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 14:05
And so therefore it’s not just the price of the home right now. You’ve got, well, you know, the cost of how much can I rent it for with we’ve got other inflation factors and macro macroeconomic factors that are increasing the price of everything. And I think ultimately, you know, rents are still a little bit inflated. We didn’t feel it as hard here I don’t think in Oklahoma. But I’ve had to talk to a lot of people.
You know, every call we get, I’m like, hey, you know, I know the Zestimate says this, but I need you to be prepared. Here’s a $200 window. Here’s what we’re going to start, and here’s where we might end up being by the time we’re done with this. Right. And so.
Skyler Walker 14:49
That’s that’s a good conversation to have on the front.
Mat Zalk 14:52
End.
Skyler Walker 14:53
Yeah I mean I think there’s a there was A0I need to hit this.
Skyler Walker 14:59
I need to hit this amount. Right. And it’s like, okay, great. I don’t have a crystal ball. I’ve got a lot of data.
Here’s all the data that says, yes, we can, but here’s some data that says sometimes we don’t.
Mat Zalk 15:13
Let me let me explain to the renter that you really need to make your monthly nut and see if they’ll come up on rent $200.
Skyler Walker 15:20
Yeah.
Mat Zalk 15:20
You can cover your 15 year amortization schedule. They really care.
Skyler Walker 15:24
Let me.
Mat Zalk 15:25
Explain.
Skyler Walker 15:27
But you don’t just want your retirement funded, you also want cash flow now.
Skyler Walker 15:35
These are the.
Mat Zalk 15:35
Real trials and tribulations that we deal with there, like in 2020. In 2021, we’d say the rent’s going to be 19, you know, 1850, 1950. And people would say, let’s try 2300 and we’d go, okay, we put it up for 2300 and we’d get 2300. It was insane. Now those same owners are like, all right, let’s try, you know, to keep pushing it like it.
We’re in a different environment. You cannot take the environment from 4 or 5 years ago and put it on today’s renters, because it’s just not the same. Like the feeling that they have. They’re like pulling out their hair. And at this price, I’ll go move in with my parents.
And I think people are doing that. Like there’s just demand is down. Of course it’s November, so we’re going to see seasonal fluctuations. But like even the summer, it was like the number of price drops that we had to do to make it work. I mean, we’re going we’re we might have a lease termination, somebody move out early and then have to lower the price to get at least, which is super unfortunate, but we’re seeing we’re seeing flat and sometimes declining rents.
The good news is that generally, it’s not worth it for a resident to move out on a $50 increase or something. And so you can continue to push rents a little bit, because moving across the street, you know, for a 25 or $50 savings is $600. You’re going to have to hire a moving truck and disrupt their kids and change all their address like it’s not ideal. So I think keeping residents in place, even if it’s not 50 bucks, if it’s 25 bucks, you’d want to keep people in place at all costs because it’s a it’s a wild West out there. You don’t want to be leasing the property if you can, if you can help it.
Skyler Walker 17:16
Yeah, 100% vacancy is brutally expensive. And that’s always my my guidance to owners who are like, yeah, we I think we’re about $150 like under rented. I’m like, well you might be, but you’re, you’re going to be about six grand out, you know, like, what’s our what’s our ROI on that? How long is it gonna take for you to recoup this money that you’re going to lose? And are we going to get 150 if we make ready this thing and put it on the market?
Skyler Walker 17:45
Or do you have.
Mat Zalk 17:46
To explain to them when they tell you that the Zillow rent estimate says, you know, it’s $150 more a month? Tell them the A and Zillow stands for accuracy.
Skyler Walker 17:54
Yeah, yeah.
Mat Zalk 17:56
It’s true. Like somebody moves out. What’s the $6,000 that you’re talking about. Like a make ready cost or the utilities and loss.
Skyler Walker 18:02
Yeah, exactly.
Skyler Walker 18:03
Like so I mean just assuming cost of vacancies. The state is 1500 bucks a month. So we’ve got immediately, you know, unless we can pre-lease it and there’s just no cost involved. But we’ll say in this scenario you’ve effectively lost $1,500, you know, magical money, theoretical money that you could have had on your lease if you had extended. But we’ll call it 1650 because we’ll use the the owner’s intended number of the $150 loss, and then the rest would be.
Yeah, make ready costs. So we need new maybe new paint, right? Maybe some foreign repairs, something like that, a little bit of drywall. And so we get it turned around. Maybe we get it leased within 30 days and we get a tenant in the following month on the first.
So yeah, six grand. So just some quick math 6000 divided by 150 40 month.
Skyler Walker 19:00
Yeah. Let’s keep that. Keep that.
Skyler Walker 19:04
Yeah. Keep them in place I mean at $2,525 increase. Yeah. You get. Well I guess you’d only do it for a year, right.
Skyler Walker 19:17
So yeah, you do 25.
Skyler Walker 19:19
Up another $300.
Mat Zalk 19:20
And then you go up another 25 bucks and. Yeah, but your your opportunity cost of the lost opportunity of, of kicking them out is not ideal.
Skyler Walker 19:31
Yeah. I mean, it’s absurd. You’re it’s. I think I think it’s hard. It’s difficult.
Especially if people are financially fit and they’re fine with, you know, moving, moving forward with something like, hey, we’ll take the loss. Whatever. Like, if you want to do it. Sure. Whatever.
Like you’re the client, you know, we’ll we’ll knock it out for you. But. Especially, you know, we have a lot of clients that they’ll just buy stuff and hang on to it for a while. Like they’ll renovate it themselves, and it’s just kind of hanging out in the background. It’s just it makes me just cringe.
I’m like, you know how much money you’re losing? Like, just get it done. Let me help you get it done. Like something like.
Skyler Walker 20:13
Let’s get this.
Skyler Walker 20:14
Thing on the market.
Mat Zalk 20:15
That’s a big pain point. People are like, can I can I do the renovation myself? Like, you can, but whatever you think you’re saving, you’re actually losing three times that much. You’re laying flooring yourself because it’s free in your mind. but it’s not free.
It’s $40 an hour or whatever your hourly rate is, so it’s not free, and then it’s going to take you three times as long as it would take us. And we’ve now lost two months of rent income as a result. That’s wild.
Skyler Walker 20:42
Yeah, 100%.
Mat Zalk 20:43
What are the what’s the geographical spread of Coyote Property Management?
Skyler Walker 20:52
Seems to be getting bigger every day.
Skyler Walker 20:53
Love that.
Mat Zalk 20:55
Footprint.
Skyler Walker 20:56
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 20:56
We’re I yeah, we’re signing a guy in Stillwater, actually.
Skyler Walker 21:00
Good.
Skyler Walker 21:01
So I probably wouldn’t have took him on, but they are brand new builds. Great. And so.
Skyler Walker 21:09
That’s like that’s like what we want to work with us.
Mat Zalk 21:11
60, 70 minutes from Tulsa. How about Stillwater? It’s not so.
Skyler Walker 21:14
Far. Yeah.
Skyler Walker 21:15
Maybe a little a little farther. Closer to 90, I think.
Skyler Walker 21:18
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 21:21
Yeah. Maybe like an hour 40.
Mat Zalk 21:24
It’s further than Oklahoma City. How far is Oklahoma City? An hour and a half. now.
Skyler Walker 21:29
Depends where you’re going. But I mean, like two probably.
Skyler Walker 21:31
Okay.
Skyler Walker 21:32
Since since I’m kind of driver. You are, I suppose.
Skyler Walker 21:35
Or fly.
Mat Zalk 21:38
Pedal to the metal. I mean, flying is. Flying is like slower almost. It’s like it depends on the headwind. You’re like, this was a.
Skyler Walker 21:47
Bad.
Mat Zalk 21:48
Idea. And then I. You gotta land somewhere and then, you know, Uber somewhere, take a car, and all of a sudden you’re like, this made no sense. But it was way more fun. Way more fun.
Skyler Walker 21:58
Yeah.
Mat Zalk 21:59
That’s cool. So Stillwater new builds, are they going to be are they going to be student housing or like single family prefer professors or just normal city folk?
Skyler Walker 22:08
No, they’re they’re a little a little ways out of town. Four bedroom, two bath, a little bit smaller, square footage. I think they’re like, maybe right around 2000. Nothing too crazy.
Skyler Walker 22:21
That’s not like a, like a starter.
Skyler Walker 22:23
For four bedroom.
Skyler Walker 22:25
Yeah. Do I?
Mat Zalk 22:26
That’s not like a starter home, though. That’s a reasonable size for a reasonable size home.
Skyler Walker 22:30
Yeah. I think some of our most successful.
Mat Zalk 22:34
Stuff is.
Skyler Walker 22:34
Like the.
Skyler Walker 22:34
Purchase point on them.
Skyler Walker 22:37
Yeah.
Mat Zalk 22:37
I guess you check the sister site and see some of our most successful rentals are like, well, if we have folks that bought them before the, you know, 20 1718, but some of the Simmons Homes, capital homes, they’re like three twos that are 1450, 1400 and 50ft². Those are like and this guy bought them. He said, you know, when I was out of first out of college and I had my my wife was my girlfriend or my wife was my fiance. You know, we needed a place. And we moved into a 1400 square foot, three bed, two bath or something like that.
Maybe he had a kid at the time and he was like, these will always stay rented. It was a good move. He bought them. They’ve gone up 50% in value, which is just nuts. But at least for Tulsa surrounding Metro and they’ve stayed rendered.
He was He was absolutely right. Small three twos. Good starter home for somebody, you know, kind of making their way in the burbs. It’s it’s legit.
Skyler Walker 23:34
Yeah 100%. That’s where our that’s what I started with was three bedroom two bath duplexes.
Skyler Walker 23:42
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 23:43
Just the perfect, perfect size and like per side you know. And for me it was it was the easiest entry point was getting a duplex. I knew I knew a three bedroom two bath or a two bedroom. As long as it had more than one bath like you just you weren’t going to have any issues.
Skyler Walker 24:02
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 24:03
You know, keep getting it rented.
Skyler Walker 24:04
I mean, duplexes.
Mat Zalk 24:05
Are generally great.
Mat Zalk 24:07
Keep it down over there.
Mat Zalk 24:10
Sorry. That was the other side of the duplex. They’re making too much noise. You gotta like it’s. I feel like duplexes are a little more like commercial management, where you got to make sure you’re not putting in, you know, like a nursery next to a cannabis shop.
You gotta like, you gotta match. You gotta match the tenants at some level, right? Make sure one’s not like a late night party animal. And the others, you know, a cop doing the 5 a.m. shift?
Skyler Walker 24:37
Yeah, 100%. Definitely had those issues, and I. I actually lived next to my tenant’s house hacking. You know, buying those duplexes.
Mat Zalk 24:48
Solid house.
Skyler Walker 24:50
Yeah, yeah, 100%. It was it was really my only method in the first home I ever bought was duplex. I became a landlord and a homeowner in the same, the same week.
Mat Zalk 25:00
What year was that?
Skyler Walker 25:02
2017.
Mat Zalk 25:04
Yeah. Good for you. You know, beautiful family. South Tulsa home. How far you’ve come?
Have you read the book? The Gap and The Gain.
Skyler Walker 25:12
Look. How far. No.
Mat Zalk 25:14
That’s a good one. The Gap and The Gain. We we we spend as Reasonably high functioning humans. We spend a lot of time like looking forward to the next peak that the next mountain that we’re climbing, and we rarely step back to take a look to see how far we’ve come. And some of the source of our misery as humans is like, we’re just looking at the next peak, the next horizon, and we don’t step back to be like, well, if I if I was here where I am now ten years ago, I would have looked back and said, that would be a great goal to be at in ten years.
But now that we’re here, we’re just like constantly looking ahead at the next one. So we never we never like appreciate where we’ve come from.
Skyler Walker 25:55
Yeah. It feels weird to pat yourself on the back and I think. Kind of like similar to the stop and smell the roses. Like it’s just like it’s just like hard to do. It’s like, no, if I, if I stop then, then I’ll stop.
You know, it’s like the, you know, grow. Your company has to grow. It’s going to die. Right? It’s like the same like the human model.
Yeah. Like you just have to. You know.
Mat Zalk 26:22
I talked to I talked to Tim Jackson yesterday of Jackson Technical and he was he was like, I’ve been in the business 25 years. I’m good. I don’t do any advertising clients that find us, find us from a referral, or they do enough diligence that they find us and call us and they’re way better clients. We don’t sell on price. We’re going to provide you an awesome service.
We’re not the cheapest. If you want the cheapest, go somewhere else. And since he, you know, has stopped doing marketing because he doesn’t, his intention is not to just like grow, grow, grow the business at an insane pace. He is happier and finds better clients. Interesting approach.
You and I, you and I haven’t been in the business 25 years, so we don’t have that luxury yet.
Skyler Walker 27:09
No, my my dad has pretty predominant, you know, taxi train company up here in Oklahoma. And they’ve been around for probably 30 years now. I mean, they don’t they’ve never done any of that advertising and stuff. The only thing that that killed them is almost did was they weren’t raising prices. They weren’t paying attention to what their competitors, where they were raising prices, what fees they were charging, what minimums there were, and they were still the best and the cheapest in town.
But it got to the point where it was like, I couldn’t keep these doors open, you know?
Mat Zalk 27:45
So yeah.
Skyler Walker 27:46
They’ve never done any of that stuff. They also don’t have a ton of competition. Market’s not super saturated, but.
Mat Zalk 27:52
What’s his business name?
Skyler Walker 27:55
Called H&R Lifting and Bucket service.
Mat Zalk 27:59
And so because it’s kind of because his main client would be an industry insider, they just know or do people find them like people have to start googling. I mean, that’s one of the challenges, is that a B2B versus B2C business, I don’t know if we’re B2C. I guess we’re technically B2B because we, our clients are really business owners that own real estate. But people are finding us on Google. I mean, they’re going to Google, they’re doing searches, they’re going to ChatGPT and understanding.
So like if we’re not on those services, we’re kind of dead in general, right? I mean, the whole name of the game is SEO SEM. But your dad, is your dad, like insulated from that because he’s just it’s just industry insiders that are buying his services.
Skyler Walker 28:43
Yeah, I think a little bit of that. And then probably something that, that that other company benefits from is word of mouth, like, hey, they took great care of me. They’ll, you know, take good care of you too. So and then just having that long standing presence, you know, hey, been in business 25 years, 35, 30 years or whatever, like you can or just a name that’s simply familiar. It’s like, oh, yeah, I’ve heard that before.
Like, yeah, I know they are. I’ve never used them. But yeah, I get it, you know?
Mat Zalk 29:11
Yeah. Top of mind brand recognition. Tell us about your days operating cranes. What’s your experience? What’s your experience level?
Operating heavy machinery.
Skyler Walker 29:20
Not a ton. Yeah it was I never dropped into the to the family business much. I, I considered it I was just a little more like I wanted to turn the wheels of the business. Not not the not the wheel on the crane.
Mat Zalk 29:37
So like you were going to work on the business? Not in the business.
Skyler Walker 29:41
Yeah, exactly.
Mat Zalk 29:43
So was your dad ever resentful of that or. He was just like you, do you, son?
Skyler Walker 29:48
I don’t maybe he internalized it. He’s he’s pretty good. He’s very patient. He’s a good guy. So he did he didn’t let me know.
You know, I think he was probably a little disappointed. But my sister works for him and my sister’s husband works for him as well. And so.
Mat Zalk 30:07
Okay, so they’re keeping it in the family.
Skyler Walker 30:09
What better hands. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Mat Zalk 30:11
I mean, I feel like, you know, if if my kids snubbed. Our profession and didn’t want to come into the business, I don’t know how I’d feel like on one hand. Cool. Go go chart your own path and on the other hand, you’d be like. But it’d be so fun to work together and that’d be disappointing.
Skyler Walker 30:30
Yeah, I don’t I don’t have the same mentality. I don’t think it’s my dad, or at least I’m more open that it would hurt my feelings if my kids weren’t interested in, like, working with me. Like, you know, I hear. What was it like, Jerry? Jerry Jones.
Right? Yeah.
Mat Zalk 30:50
He brought his whole family. Whole family? Yeah.
Skyler Walker 30:54
Yeah. Who does he want surrounding him on his deathbed? You know, what’s his board and his family there, right?
Mat Zalk 31:00
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 31:00
And he wants them to be the same people. I just I love that.
Mat Zalk 31:07
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 31:07
My my only experience with trains is we used to in the crane yard. They would put like a big rope and we would swing. We’d swing from the crane and we would jump off of, like, the deck behind the cab and just just rip it. It was a good time. Actually.
Mat Zalk 31:28
It does great things for your dad’s general liability insurance, as your friends are. As your friends are with you. Like jumping rope swings. What else is going on? How many how many owner conversations do you have in a week?
You think these days? Is it trend up for you in the winter, coming into winter months, or trend down?
Skyler Walker 31:50
I don’t think it’s really slowed down much. I probably have. Maybe like an average of one a day.
Mat Zalk 32:00
Wow. Solid.
Skyler Walker 32:02
Yeah, yeah, it’s maybe a little less. Maybe like Like ..8.7 somewhere in there, but pretty close. I mean, honestly, we do do get a lot of calls.
Mat Zalk 32:17
I feel like at some level we get we start to like trend up in winter months and it’s like, I don’t have my finger on the pulse, but I get the sense that it’s owners that tried to lease or do their own property management over the summer and like, didn’t have success. And now they’re bringing it to the professionals. And I’m like, man, you’ve really done yourself a disservice because I don’t have a magic wand, a silver bullet that will get your house leased when it’s when when a 10th of the people are looking for houses. Like, had you brought it to me in July, I would have gotten you top rent good people. Now it’s like the dregs of society are coming around looking for for a place when nobody else wants to move.
And everybody’s getting ready for Thanksgiving with the family.
Skyler Walker 33:02
Yeah. Most of our influx right now is people who are taking their house off the market, or hopefully didn’t even put it on the market. And because they see they see what’s going on and or they they were on the market 30, 60, 90 days, went under contract, lost it at the end. And they’re like, you know what? Forget it.
We’re we’re going to rent it. They call me. They’re like, yeah, you know, give me your opinion. You know, can we make this thing cash flow and then like that’s always fun. I mean, it’s kind of like.
A little it’s not as warm of a lead. But usually when I mention to them like, hey, do you know what a landlord policy is like a brick and mortar policy for insurance. So we open up a little bit of monthly for them. Then they’re kind of get them get them rolling a little bit.
Mat Zalk 33:53
Oh, you’re saying that the cost of their insurance actually reduces because it moves from a replacement cost to an actual cost?
Skyler Walker 33:59
Yeah, they usually still have a homeowner’s policy.
Mat Zalk 34:01
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 34:02
Yeah. So they’re paying. Yeah. You know, I mean depending on what they’re paying, they save $100 or more a month and they’re like, oh, cool, that pays for you.
Mat Zalk 34:12
I got a call yesterday from a buddy who’s like, hey, I’ve got, you know, I was thinking about selling my house as we bought a new house, and now I’m thinking about renting it. I’m always like, you know, how much equity do you have in that? It’s a $3,500 house in, in, you know, down south. And I’m like, yeah, could it rent for $3,200 a month, 30, $300 a month maybe. And that’s, you know, $1,000 spread over your mortgage.
But, like, is that the best use of the capital that’s locked up in the house right now? Like it ends up being the difference between buying a true rent house, which is, you know, $150,000 house and getting 15, 16, $1,700 a month in rent, which is hard these days, no doubt about it. That’s not an easy acquisition to make. But the difference between that, it’s like, you know, a 30% return on your cash versus a house that you’ve owned for a bunch of years, and you’ve got a lot of cash in it, and you could sell it for a good margin. And like, I almost think that, you know, if your return is I love real estate and I love depreciation, but like when you factor all that stuff in, it’s still not as like you have more ups.
There’s more variability, more volatility in the in the fixed asset world than there is in like I don’t know, maybe stocks over a ten year period or maybe not on a daily basis, I don’t know. How do you think about that. Did you tell your friend to take the house?
Skyler Walker 35:42
I yeah, yeah, I would say so unless it depends where they’re at. Right. Like if there’s a substantial amount of equity and they’re like, I want to invest in real estate, this is where I’m going to start. And I say, okay, well you’ve got 100 grand equity. Like, have you heard of a DSR loan?
Let’s go buy 2 or 3 instead of doing this one right. And let’s methodically spend, you know, some of this money or whatever or, you know, hey, this was your primary residence. You only need two and five, right, to not pay taxes on it. So you’re gonna go buy something else or not pay capital gains. So if you’re gonna go buy something else, let’s just season it for a few years and see if you like this.
You know, let’s try it out and you can still offload it without getting blitzed. Right. So. That’s usually kind of where I start. But if there’s if they’re motivated, they really want to get into real estate.
Like probably get rid of it. Do something else. Unless you unless it’s gonna rent really. Well which that one sounds like maybe it’s a little too high end.
Mat Zalk 36:52
Yeah. I mean.
Skyler Walker 36:53
If you can withstand like the higher vacancy periods, like that’s that’s always a scary thing. Whenever somebody comes to me and needs to rent for over three grand, really over 2500. I’m like. I’m like, I hope somebody from out of town is moving here because, you know, like, it’s just it’s just in my opinion, it’s harder to rent them.
Mat Zalk 37:11
I actually don’t know if I agree with that. Like I feel like we have these executive we have one owner who’s got 8 or 9 homes. He bought executive homes in jinx. I don’t know what he was doing back in the day. I mean, they’re not cheap houses and they all rent for 32 to 3500 bucks.
And I feel like we have very limited vacancy. In fact, one of them. This is the greatest story of property management. One of them has kind of a a small back patio. And the resident came to us and said, my dog keeps getting insanely muddy.
I need like more of a concrete pad for the back. And I said, okay, how much will it cost to do it? This was going back five years, she said. Like, I don’t know, $6,000. And I said, fantastic, you pay the $6,000.
And every year on renewal, I’ll give you a $500 credit. And she’s been in the home like five years. So every year the rent goes up. She gets her credit. She’s paying like a reasonable.
She’s been in a long time, so she’s not, like probably at market, but she’s at a at a solid increase every year. And she has an incentive now to stay in and recoup the $6,000 that she paid for the concrete, which is fantastic. Owners thrilled has an investment in his house. But like I, I think that sometimes. So I maybe I used to have a tendency to agree with you.
And now I feel like there are still a ton of people that make good money, but always if they make 300 grand, they always spend 305. And so they’re kind of like perpetual renters. And God bless him, I mean, so I, I wonder, God bless him like that. It’s that’s their prerogative. But I feel like it’s almost like you get better quality tenants at $3,500 for sure, than you do at a thousand.
Oh, yeah. But there’s a risk that there’s.
Skyler Walker 39:11
A risk I always find. Yeah, I always find that they’re, you know, and smaller sample size here, but like, they’re always building a house or they’re, you know, just sold their farm or whatever, and they’re just waiting. They’re moving to town, you know, or whatever. And it’s not inappropriately priced. It’s not like, you know, or whatever, but a lot of the nicer homes, you know, that we manage are non-typical areas.
Nobody bought ten of them. There’s no other rentals like in the neighborhood. Yeah. They’re just kind of kind of odd. So sometimes they just fly off the market.
They might. Or they might sit for 45 days. Once you get it in, they’re. They’re amazing. They’re like pushing me information.
They’re like, hey, I changed the filters. I’m like, oh.
Mat Zalk 40:02
I know, I know, I know, I know, like, hey, the thermostat was broken. I just went to Home Depot. I bought a new thermostat and replaced it. I’m like, God, yeah. You also know how to navigate ChatGPT in the most amazing way, right?
I mean, that’s that’s like really true. That’s a really good point. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I’m looking at this I’m looking at this resident here they’ve been in since that story I just told.
They’ve been in since 2020, August of 2020. And we’ve had him at a 2% increase annually. But like again, to your point, on to your point on the cost of vacancy, this is an incredibly valuable lease to the owner. Takes a rent increase every year. This year it was modest.
This year was modest in line with the conversation that we just had, but like took good increases straight through Covid Ovid and on time payers every time take their $500 credit. Happens in October of every year. But they. I mean the value of a five year resident is is a I mean it’s immense. Yeah.
Tell me.
Skyler Walker 41:13
Yeah. It’s incredible.
Mat Zalk 41:15
Tell me. Let’s let’s let’s wrap. It’s always good to chat, but let’s wrap here. What what are you reading? I know I gave you The Gap and The Game.
I also read, oh, what’s the last book I read? I’m reading right now again, Rocket Fuel, which is the visionary integrator follow up to Gino Wickman’s book, Traction. If you haven’t read us that EOS Traction book, it’s awesome. I mean, I know it sucks. It’s a textbook, but like, it’s a great business practice tool for the business.
And I read bringing it, Bringing Down the House. No, but dang it, I just read about this. About this guy that was like a a great salesman at a wire company and became a like, a total gambling addict. Lost everything in his life, but then built his own business called Windy City Wire that he ended up selling for $600 million. So it was kind of his triumphant comeback, which was which was cool.
What are you. What are you reading? What are you. What lessons are you taken away?
Skyler Walker 42:15
Right now I’m just reading. I kind of switched it up from, you know, the the build myself better to. I recently read The Circle Series by Ted Dekker. It’s kind of like a interesting, like, sort of fantasy, but based in, like, I guess, kind of Christian undertones.
Mat Zalk 42:38
Yeah.
Skyler Walker 42:39
So almost like a Chronicles of Narnia type. But what’s cool about it is you can read, you can as long as you read them in order from one to there’s four books, you can start on two and end on one. Oh, wow. Three and yeah, so I only read it the way I read it in the order that it was published, and I can’t imagine reading it any other way.
Mat Zalk 43:01
Wow. That’s fascinating. But that’s a little bit like Star Wars ish.
Skyler Walker 43:05
Yeah, I mean, no. So it’s so this guy, he he lives here in this world and there’s, there’s something pretty big going on. And then he goes to sleep and he, he kind of wakes up in this other world and it’s foreshadowing. It’s foretelling. It’s pretty interesting.
I really enjoyed it. Right now I’m reading, it’s called Staying with My Boys. It is a it’s a biography, but it’s written as an autobiography. Even though he passed away of John Basilone from World War Two.
Mat Zalk 43:39
Wow.
Skyler Walker 43:40
Famous, famous machine gunner. So.
Mat Zalk 43:43
Dude, I’ve also been listening to this crazy podcast that is four hours long and it’s first thing, and it’s about World War one, like 14 to 7, 19 14 to 1917, and just trench warfare and like crazy stuff that they dealt with as soldiers back then, there in trenches, bailing out water, getting trench foot fleas, lice, rats everywhere. As soon as they put their head above the trench line, they just get machine gunned down. I mean, it’s just no food. I mean, absolutely insane.
Skyler Walker 44:15
Yeah. It’s horrific environment. World War Two was a lot of malaria. And just like, even if your conditions were okay, which they weren’t, you were getting destroyed from the inside. So like, it’s just.
Yeah.
Mat Zalk 44:31
Pretty March, March for three days on. No food carrying like you’re £115 because that’s what people were back then in the German army and British Army and. Carry like £80 and you’re soaking wet. It just. I mean, what a wonderful era we live in.
Holy moly.
Skyler Walker 44:54
Right.
Mat Zalk 44:55
Good God, Skywalker. Good to see you. Always, always a pleasure.
Skyler Walker 45:01
Yeah, man. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Mat Zalk 45:04
How do people reach out real quick before we sign you off?
Skyler Walker 45:09
Yeah. coyotepmc.com. So really there or reach us at (918) 880-3007. But we’re on Facebook Instagram.
You know all the all the places really. So. But best way is just through our website. If anybody wants to talk to us or just chat us up, you know, we’re always open to just say, hey, give me some information. Somebody call me from California the other day, like, oh, I don’t actually have property in Oklahoma, but do you want to chit chat for a little bit?
And I was like, yeah, sure, man. Like, let’s help you out. You know, maybe we’ll bring your money over here into Oklahoma.
Mat Zalk 45:49
Hold on. Let me connect you to my chat bot for a second.
Skyler Walker 45:53
Yeah.
Mat Zalk 45:55
Cool. Skyler Walker, besides doing God’s work, as you heard about on this podcast, is a real estate investor, small business owner, marine reservist, which we didn’t talk about at all on the next on the next version of Skyler and Mat chit chat, we’re going to we’re going to jump into that. He’s also a husband to his beautiful wife and father to three amazing kids. When he’s not serving his clients, he’s training for high rocks, mountain biking, or finding a project around the house to consider finishing. God, do I know how that works.
Born and raised in Oklahoma and a graduate of Jenks High School, Skyler is looking to add value to his community through real estate and just being a cool, good dude. Skyler, we appreciate you being on the show.
Skyler Walker 46:32
Yeah. Thanks, man. See you.
Outro 46:38
Thanks for listening to The Same Day Podcast. Tune in to a new show each week and be sure to subscribe to get future episodes.