In this episode of The Same Day Podcast, host Yoni Schmidt sits down with Ben Aussenberg, Partner at Aycock Aussenberg, to discuss how to safeguard property investments during a divorce. They explore the nuances of dividing real estate assets, the role of prenuptial agreements in protecting property, and the financial mistakes to avoid. Ben also shares advice on how to use trusts and LLCs effectively to ensure clarity and protection.
How To Safeguard Property Investments in a Divorce With Ben Aussenberg
Ben Aussenberg is a Partner at Aycock Aussenberg, a law firm focusing on all areas of family law, including divorce, custody, alimony, child support, adoption, grandparent rights, and name changes. In addition, Ben is experienced in handling cases related to guardianships, conservatorships, probates, criminal defense, and personal injuries. With nearly 11 years of experience, Ben has tried hundreds of cases, bringing significant expertise to complex family law issues, especially those involving real estate investments. He has practiced law in both Colorado and Oklahoma, gaining a broad perspective on managing real estate assets during and after divorce proceedings.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [02:24] Ben Aussenberg talks about the most common issues that arise when real estate investments are involved in divorce proceedings
- [08:25] How important are prenuptial or postnuptial agreements when it comes to protecting real estate assets?
- [12:51] Navigating equitable distribution of investment properties in a divorce
- [14:44] What to consider before purchasing real estate assets with a spouse
- [19:53] Enforcement tactics for noncompliance in property agreements
- [24:38] How to avoid common real estate mistakes during divorce proceedings
- [29:11] Ben’s advice for those navigating divorce when real estate is involved
In this episode…
When navigating the complexities of legal agreements and asset division, protecting your property investments during a divorce can feel overwhelming. How can you ensure that your real estate assets are safeguarded while making equitable decisions for all parties involved?
According to Ben Aussenberg, a family law attorney with extensive experience in divorce and asset division, specificity is key. He highlights the importance of clear agreements that address property ownership, financial responsibilities, and maintenance during and after a divorce. Ambiguities in decrees or settlements can lead to disputes, financial strain, or court enforcement actions. Ben also explains how tools like prenuptial agreements, LLCs, and QTIP trusts can help couples define ownership and protect their investments while minimizing risks. These strategies, paired with proactive communication and professional guidance, are essential for navigating the intersection of real estate and family law.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Yonatan Schmidt on LinkedIn
- Mat Zalk on LinkedIn
- Walter Bowser on LinkedIn
- Keyrenter Property Management
- Keyrenter Property Management in Tulsa | Oklahoma City | Arkansas
- Keyrenter Property Management email address: [email protected]
- Ben Aussenberg on LinkedIn
Related Episodes
- “Exploring New Possibilities in Entrepreneurship” with Chip Gaberino on The Same Day Podcast
- “Revitalizing Communities Through Multi-Concept Restaurant Development” with Elliot Nelson on The Same Day Podcast
- “The Future of Financial Advising: Building Relationships Over Returns” with Morgan Martin on The Same Day Podcast
Quotable Moments
- “Be very specific in your orders so it’s crystal clear who’s responsible for what.”
- “Prenups spell out what property is separate in the event of a divorce.”
- “Real estate can be trickier than dealing with a checking account.”
- “Getting out ahead and having those conversations early and often is the right thing to do.”
- “Equitable division doesn’t have to be equal; it just has to be fair.”
Action Steps
- Consult with an experienced attorney early: Engaging with a family law attorney early in the process can clarify the division of assets, especially complex ones like real estate.
- Consider prenuptial or postnuptial agreements: These agreements can play a crucial role in protecting real estate assets by clearly defining ownership and responsibilities in the event of a divorce.
- Utilize legal structures like LLCs or trusts: Setting up an LLC or trust to hold real estate can offer liability protection and facilitate easier management and division of property.
- Be specific in divorce decrees and settlements: Ensure that all legal documents clearly outline the division of assets, responsibilities for property maintenance, and any applicable financial arrangements.
- Maintain open communication and plan ahead: Whether through mediators or directly, maintaining open lines of communication about asset division and future plans can ease tensions and lead to more amicable resolutions.
Sponsor for this episode…
Keyrenter Property Management:
This episode is brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management.
Keyrenter Property Management is a full-service property management company that helps clients buy, renovate, and operate real estate assets.
The team helps clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management.
That’s why, no matter what rental you have — single-family homes, condos, townhomes, or apartments — they can give you the management solutions you need.
To learn more about their services, go to https://keyrenterpmc.com/ or send them an email at [email protected].
Episode Transcript
Intro 00:04
Welcome to The Same Day Podcast, where we discuss driving incremental business growth and other topics related to real estate, property management and entrepreneurship. Now to the show at hand.
Yoni Schmidt 00:20
Hello there. Yoni Schmidt here, hosting today’s episode of the same day podcast where we connect with top real estate, top business entrepreneurs and leaders. Past guests include Chip Gaberino, a local restaurateur, entrepreneur, Elliot Nelson, the CEO of the McNellie’s Group, and Morgan Martin of Merrill Lynch. Today’s episode is brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management. We are a full service property management company helping our clients buy, renovate and operate real estate assets. We help our clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management. That is why no matter what rental you have single family homes, condos, townhouses, apartments we have the management solutions that you need, go to keyrenterpmc.com or email us at [email protected] for more information. Today I’m excited to welcome Ben Aussenberg, an accomplished family law attorney and partner at Aycock Aussenberg. Ben is dedicated to providing clients with the highest level of legal support during some of life’s most challenging moments with expertise in child custody, asset division, prenuptial agreement and much more. Ben brings a wealth of knowledge to today’s conversation. In this episode, we’ll explore the intersection of family law and real estate investments, and specifically how individuals and couples can protect their assets and what the best options are for managing investment properties during and after a divorce. Welcome to the show, Ben, and thank you for being here.
Ben Aussenberg 01:48
Hey. Good morning. Thanks for having me.
Yoni Schmidt 01:50
Yeah. So nice to have you, Ben. Let’s dive right in and talk a little bit about the foundations of family law and real estate. You have a lot of experience in this field. I’ve known you, I guess, for maybe a decade now. You know, you you you were in Colorado doing this. You moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and now you’re based here. Tell us about, you know, your experience and what are some of the most common issues that you see when that arise, when, you know, real estate investments are involved in divorce proceedings?
Ben Aussenberg 02:24
Sure. Thanks. So a little bit about me. I’ve been practicing law for about 11 years, just under 11 years exclusively on the family law area. Spent kind of my high school and college days clerking and working at different family law firms in Atlanta and Houston and Colorado. I moved to Colorado after law school in 20. That would have been 2014. Moved to Colorado, worked there for six years. And I’ve been practicing in Oklahoma for about five years now. So been doing it a long time. I’ve kind of seen a lot, both in Colorado and Oklahoma as it relates to family law. So have a lot of experience in the courtroom. I’ve tried hundreds of cases through all stages of the process. You know, in terms of, you know, kind of the most common issues that I see, it kind of depends on where you are in the case. Are we at the beginning or middle of the case or are we, you know, kind of at the end of the case or is the case over? So if we’re in the middle of the case and we have, you know, a real estate property. Say it’s a rental property. Things to consider or common issues that we see is, you know, do we have a tenant in the property? Is the tenant going to stay in the property during the divorce? Is the tenant going to stay in the property after the divorce? Are we kicking the tenant out? When is the lease up? Is the is the least priced appropriately? Oftentimes spouses will get into debates over, you know, whether $1,500 is too high or low or, you know, do we need to bump it up to $2,000 to keep up with market forces? You know, do we want to extend the lease or do we want to, you know, terminate the lease, you know, kind of at the conclusion of its term. Oftentimes, one party needs to move into the real estate property. So sometimes we’ll have, you know, kind of the main marital residence. And they’ll have, you know, one rental property. And sometimes they need it to move into, you know, whether or not they have kids. You know, sometimes they need a place to go. If they’re if they’re not going to be living together. What are we doing with the property? Are we selling it or are we keeping it? So those are questions that that that arise and are issues that really need to be addressed during the case. Some other things include payment of of upkeep of the house. You know what happens if something goes wrong. You know what happens if the AC goes out? What happens if there’s a plumbing issue? So just kind of general maintaining, you know, maintaining the property. Who’s paying for it. So, you know, my advice on that is, you know, be very, very specific in your in your orders. So that’s crystal clear as to, you know, who’s responsible for what. When the case is over, for instance, oftentimes we’ll need to sign deeds. So a quitclaim deed is a tool that we use to transfer all of the property interest from one party to the other party. We have to get the other side to sign it. We have to get their cooperation. Oftentimes when there’s a rental involved, we’ve got security deposits. So if one party was the one that was handling the security deposits, they may have it in their own separate bank account. But the property is going over to the other person. And so oftentimes there’s a couple thousand dollars that’s, you know, kind of in flux. That needs to be addressed. So we’ve got to handle, you know, getting the security deposits back over to the right person. And then even after the divorce is over, you know, we need to be clear. We’ve got to make sure that we’re clear as to who’s responsible for what in terms of maintaining the house. You know, when. So oftentimes we’ll settle in mediation, but the divorce isn’t going to be finalized for another few weeks or a few months. And so what happens in that interim time period? You know, if we resolve it today in December, we may not be done until February. So who’s making those payments when something goes wrong, you know, at Christmas or New Year’s or in January? So those are kind of common issues that we see. We try to we’re kind of in the business of worst case scenario. So we try our best to foresee those issues on the front end and address those before they come up.
Yoni Schmidt 06:33
Yeah. Awesome. That’s all great information to have. And I guess how often do you see digressing a little bit. How often do you see that the rental property is kept after a divorce.
And, you know, a couple that has separated, you know, continues to operate the asset as an investment. Is that common? Is it uncommon? I guess it would take some sort of, you know, good relationships there between between the couple.
Ben Aussenberg 07:04
Definitely. I mean, it just kind of depends on on what their what their circumstances are, what their situation is and what their goals are. Do what can I afford a rental property? Do I want to have the headaches that may be associated with the rental property? Obviously, having a property management company such as key renter come in, you know, could be very helpful. So that might alleviate some of the headaches. But those are those are some of the things to consider. Yeah. So possible. What’s that.
Yoni Schmidt 07:33
It’s possible. Absolutely not. Out of the realm of of impossible.
Ben Aussenberg 07:38
Right, right. And you know, what’s the rest of your you know, what’s the rest of the marital estate look like? Are you are you. Or if you’re only receiving, you know, a rental property. Does that make a lot of sense? Rental properties can always be sold. And so if you’re if you’re in need of cash or, you know, liquid or semi liquid assets, you know, maybe it’s best to sell it. So just kind of on a case by case basis, you know, do you have for rental properties. Do you have for rental properties. Maybe you keep one sell three or the other way around. Sell one, keep three.
Yoni Schmidt 08:12
Yeah. All good stuff. Let’s talk a little bit about prenups, which I know you you are experienced with. How important are prenuptial or postnuptial agreements when it comes to protecting real estate assets?
Ben Aussenberg 08:25
Sure. That’s a good question. They can be very important. It just kind of depends on where you at, where you are at financially. Kind of moving into a marriage. So I think, you know, it gets a little taken out of context just in society that people think that they have to have a prenup going into every marriage, and I don’t think that’s the case. But oftentimes, if it’s your second or third marriage and you and you’ve kind of, you know, built up some assets, net worth along the way. It can be very important for your case. So the important part, you know, the important aspect of a prenup is, you know, you’re really going to spell out and, you know, sort of predetermine what property is going to be separate property and kept by you in the event of a divorce. And that’s all it is, is you’re saying, hey, we’re getting married. We’re entering into this, you know, this this contract, this love contract. And in the event of a divorce, this is what happens. Yeah. So it’s certainly not required. But it is advisable. If you have, you know, any kind of assets, especially a rental property or, or just real property in general going into the marriage. So the general rule in Oklahoma, as I always say, is property owned prior to the marriage is going to remain your separate property, so the court cannot divest you of that property that you own prior to the marriage. And that’s going to include any passive gains or passive increases in the value of that property. So if it’s worth $200,000 at the time of marriage and $400,000 at the time of divorce, that $200,000 of gain is going to be market force, it’s going to be related to market forces, and that will remain your separate property. It gets a little tricky when we’re talking about improvements to property. So during the marriage you, you know, add a kitchen or you add a, you know, fourth bedroom, something like that. That gets a little bit tricky depending on how it’s paid for. So in other words, if you’re using marital funds, if you’re using joint money and putting it into a separate property asset, it gets a little tricky when you’re dealing with with with that at a divorce. But with the prenup, you know, absent any any anything specific that is your separate property, it’s not going to say anything. I mean, it might say something about, you know, what happens if you make improvements to it. But I’ve seen a lot of prenups that don’t mention anything about that. And that party, you know, could be out of luck. And, you know, it’s it’s sort of a windfall for the party that that owned the property, that despite the fact that they put joint money into it. The person that had the property prior to the marriage gets to keep all of those improvements. Another thing that could come up is making mortgage payments towards a separate property house. So if there’s a prenup, if if it’s sort of silence on on using joint funds to pay that merit or that separate property rather. Same thing. The person that had that property prior to the marriage is probably going to receive somewhat of a windfall. In the absence of a prenup, however, you’d have a pretty good argument to say, hey, we use these joint funds to pay for this separate asset of the other party. Yeah, so I need some of that money back now. Is it dollar for dollar? No. Probably not. But the principal pay down. So every month you pay the mortgage, that’s going to be a paydown of the principal. And that principal pay down. You’re going to have a pretty good argument for reimbursement of some of that. Again, not dollar for dollar, but, you know, 50 to 75%, you know, you’d have a pretty good shot at getting some of it back.
Yoni Schmidt 12:28
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about how state laws such as those governing that community property that you’re mentioning, or equitable distributions impact the division of investment properties during the divorce? I mean, you kind of touched on this or alluded to it a moment ago. What does that look like? In real life?
Ben Aussenberg 12:51
Sure. So Oklahoma follows an equitable division of property. So what does equitable equitable mean? It could be 50/50. It could be 60/40. It could be 70/30. It just depends. And when we’re talking about an equitable division we’re talking about marital property. So I touched briefly about the the separate property. So separated property is anything acquired prior to the marriage. And then and then marital property. It’s going to be anything acquired during the marriage unless it’s acquired by gift or inheritance. So there’s a couple exceptions to that rule. So it really just depends on whether it’s separate or marital. You know, was it owned prior to the marriage. Was it owned after the marriage. And that’s how Oklahoma’s going to look at it. If it’s marital it’s subject to division. If it’s separate it’s not. So you know we’re looking at close to 50 over 50. But there there could be circumstances which would require more than a 50% division.
Yoni Schmidt 13:53
The nuances like, you know, improving a property, a rental property and, you know, renovating it with metal funds, then it becomes like a little more nuanced and complicated.
Ben Aussenberg 14:03
Times more nuanced. And you have to keep in mind, you have to look at kind of the overall picture. There’s going to be, you know, oftentimes there’s retirement accounts involved, investment accounts involved, cash accounts involved, other personal property involved that has value. So when you look at the overall picture, that’s kind of what you’re looking at is is getting close to 50 over 50. But it just has to be equitable.mIt doesn’t have to be equal.
Yoni Schmidt 14:28
Yeah. Let’s talk a little bit about like protecting real estate investments. Right. What can individuals what should individuals take, you know, into consideration before purchasing real estate with a spouse or partner to safeguard investments?
Ben Aussenberg 14:44
Sure. There are certainly tools that can be used. I don’t do real estate law, so there might be tools that I’m just not aware of or don’t use very often. But what I see the most would be an LLC or a trust. Those hold the property, you know, kind of separate and out of their individual names. This would be used for, say, tax purposes or just kind of general liability purposes. So with an LLC, if an LLC owns the real estate, they’ll create. I see parties will create like a a partnership agreement or even an operating agreement. And it kind of spells out what the specific rights and responsibilities are. As you of the owners of the LLC. With trusts, there’s there’s actually a trust related to real estate that you could use called a QTIP. I don’t do a ton of those, but I have seen them. Those are I wouldn’t draft that, but I would send that out to a real estate attorney. QTIP stands for Qualified Terminal Interest Property. And so you would use this. You could use it with the first spouse or sometimes with the second spouse. And you know, if you were to pass away. So you would own it jointly. And if one person would have passed away, there wouldn’t be a whole lot of change after that person passed away. So the other person would kind of have what’s called a life estate. So basically use of it for life. And then that trust would have a beneficiary or multiple beneficiaries. So say children or grandchildren grandchildren. So when both of those principles of that trust passed away it would go to the beneficiaries. And there’s there’s different tax benefits that are associated with that. So basically you’re you’re deferring capital gain taxes by having a QTIP trust. And then you know, when we’re talking about divorce or we’re looking to see, you know, when that trust when that LLC was established, was it established during the marriage or after the marriage? If it was done during during the marriage, no real question about that. You can I’ve seen people try to create an LLC during the marriage and put it in just their name. And then when it came to the divorce, they would try to say, well, it’s only in my name, so it’s all mine. That’s not how it works. You can call it however you want, but if it was, if it was done during the marriage and it was, you know, marital funds that was used to purchase that property, it’s going to be marital property no matter what. So those are kind of ways to, to protect real estate when you’re, when you’re, you know, getting into a marital relationship.
Yoni Schmidt 17:32
Yeah. The QTIP trust I guess would also help individuals avoid having the property going to probate, I’m guessing at the time of one of the people in the in the relationship or in the marriage. Laughing.
Ben Aussenberg 17:49
Yeah, absolutely. It was an automatic transfer. Yeah.
Yoni Schmidt 17:53
Got it. Beautiful. Moving on here to some of my questions. What other specific types of agreements or contracts? I guess you kind of touched on that. Should couples have in place when Co-owning investment properties. You mentioned the QTIPs you mentioned LLCs. Anything else in in mind?
Ben Aussenberg 18:14
Sure. So, you know, other than that, we’re really talking about what’s set forth in the decree of dissolution of marriage. So once the divorce is finalized, that’s going to be your final contract. And it’s called a decree of dissolution of marriage. It could be by agreement or it could be by court order. If there’s no agreement and it goes to trial. The reality is, most cases, you know, over 80% of cases settle outside of court. So we do mostly agree Agreed decrees of dissolution of marriage, but that’s going to be the contract. You look to that’s going to spell out specifically, you know what? What’s to be followed. For the for the, you know, ownership of property. And it can also be done if it’s done by agreement. We put together confidential property settlement agreements. So we’ll put together, you know, we’ll spell out in a contract and then it’s enforceable and signed by the judge. Who’s keeping what. And who’s responsible for what. And we keep an original with us. And basically everybody has an original. But that doesn’t get filed of record. And so it remains out of public view. So that’s an option as well.
Yoni Schmidt 19:27
Yeah. And what happens in one of the parties is not fulfilling their obligation based on that final contract. Right. I mean, the judge says, okay, you can have this property. You’re going to be responsible for it. You know, AC goes out, they say, I’m not going to fix it. I don’t have the money, I don’t care, whatnot. This is this was my wife’s tenant. It’s her cousin. Whatever it is. Right. What happens in those cases?
Ben Aussenberg 19:53
Yeah. So it depends on on if it’s co-owned or if it’s assigned to one person. So let’s say it’s co-owned. There are enforcement mechanisms. So contempt of court is kind of the big one. You file a contempt of court saying that there’s a valid court order. They had knowledge of the court order. They had the ability to comply with the court order, and they failed to comply with the court order. So that comes with up to $500 fine, up to six months in jail, plus the enforcement, you know, that they have to they have to actually follow through with what they were supposed to do. So that’s pretty extreme. And most people don’t go to jail for it. However, it is an enforcement mechanism that’s probably the most common enforcement mechanism if it’s owned by one party and they’re not, you know, upholding their end of the bargain, usually it just falls on them. As long as it’s not, you know, we always have indemnification clauses in there. So in other words, if, if, if there’s a an outstanding loan or something like that, a credit card debt that they’re supposed to be paying associated with the property. So if they had to, you know, put it on a, put an AC unit on a credit card or something like that, and they’re not following through. We do have either contempt or enforcement actions on that under an indemnification clause.
Yoni Schmidt 21:17
Yeah. And for for those of us who are listening in, you know, don’t understand the legal terminology, the indemnification is basically a release of liability for the other party. Is what I’m understanding correct?
Ben Aussenberg 21:30
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Yoni Schmidt 21:32
Yeah. So if I if, if, you know, someone needs to make loan payments on a mortgage and they fail to do so. Then, in the final contract and the decree or the dissolution of a marriage. That property was basically awarded to one party and they failed to make those loan payments, even if both names were on the loan. The other party that had their name on the loan is indemnified from any, I guess, foreclosure proceedings that may arise in the future from the failure to pay the mortgage.
Ben Aussenberg 22:08
That’s correct.
Yoni Schmidt 22:09
Okay. Makes sense.
Ben Aussenberg 22:11
So it doesn’t mean that you’re not going to be sued. Because I’ve seen that happen. Yeah. I mean, you’re not going to be pursued or they’re not going to send it to collections. But you do have that that enforcement mechanism in place.
Yoni Schmidt 22:25
So tell me, for the just kind of going down this rabbit hole. For the party who was released of the obligation to pay the mortgage because their name is no longer associated with that property. In the event that you know, the the responsible party no longer makes mortgage payments. Right? And you do get sued. What protection mechanisms are there? You know, do you do you take out the decree and dissolution of marriage and you go to the lender and you say, look here, this, this basically states that the responsibility falls on this other party and release this claim against me.
Ben Aussenberg 23:03
So it depends on the lender. Most lenders in my experience, say, hey, your name is on it. We don’t care what your contract says. You know, you can go recoup that from the other side. And so that’s kind of the most common thing that happens. Sometimes if you if you call up the lender and kind of get ahead of it, they’ll, you know, be proactive because it costs them time and money. They don’t want to be messing with it either. So if they know that you’re going through a divorce and you’re getting worked out through the court, oftentimes it kind of buys you a couple of months with with the lender before they start taking action. So that’s how I handle it typically.
Yoni Schmidt 23:39
Yeah. Interesting. Any other ways to protect yourself aside for, I guess, calling the lender or recouping the the funds from the other party?
Ben Aussenberg 23:49
I mean, if you don’t want your credit to be dinged, sometimes you could just pay it. You know, even though you don’t want to pay, you just pay it and then pursue. Yeah. Pursue against the other side. Yeah. Oftentimes we’ll put in provisions that say if you don’t. So say say your name is on the loan, but the property’s going to the other person. We say that if you don’t refinance it or otherwise remove your name within a certain period of time, house gets sold.
Yoni Schmidt 24:21
Got it. Yeah. That’s a great way to protect yourself. Yeah. Tell me I’m going to move ahead here a little bit. What are common mistakes that you’ve seen some people make when handling real estate, you know, during divorce.
Ben Aussenberg 24:38
Not being specific enough. So, you know, you want to make sure that your court order is very specific in terms of, you know what, who’s getting what and who’s responsible for what. You know, one thing is, you know, you kind of have to look at your financial situation. So you don’t want to, you know, you know, you don’t want to be responsible for a loan that you really can’t afford. So I see that as a common mistake that people are kind of house poor. That was a big issue when I lived in Colorado, for instance, when the real estate just skyrocketed in value. You know, say a parent wanted to maintain the house for the consistency of the children, which is great. But, you know, they have to there has to be a corresponding buyout to the other side. So you may be keeping the real estate, but if there’s a, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars of equity that has to go to the other side somehow, you know, and, you know, best case scenario, there’s there’s other assets that can be, you know, offset by by the, by the equity. And you don’t have to come out of pocket. But some people have to refinance and sometimes you’re refinancing for a higher interest rate. So then you’re paying a lot more money for the same thing. I think that’s a big financial mistake. You know, 2023, 2024 was really hard here in Oklahoma and everywhere else. But I was here in Oklahoma when that happened. Is, you know, what happens when you have a 3.25 interest rate. And then here you have to refinance it at six, seven 8%. That’s that’s a that’s a mistake that that people made. And that’s that’s you know, ultimately it comes down to that person and that party of, you know, what makes sense for them. But, you know, you might be paying $1,000 a month more for the same thing. To, you know, to to refinance it, to get the name of the other party off. Yeah. So that’s kind of a big mistake.
Yoni Schmidt 26:43
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. I guess what are the other what what are some other warning signs that couples should, you know, consult with a family law attorney before making, you know, significant real estate investments. Is it? You know, you can’t really sign a prenup before you get married. I guess you’d sign a post-nup, right? Or prenup?
Ben Aussenberg 27:07
Prenup prior to the marriage. Right after the marriage.
Yoni Schmidt 27:11
Not after the marriage. Yeah.
Ben Aussenberg 27:12
Yeah. So, I mean, what I, I mean, if we’re talking warning signs, I mean, that that that says to me, hey, maybe divorce is a possibility, or maybe a divorce is on the horizon. I think that’s when you would consult an attorney. You know, we, for instance, we charge a small consultation fee and I and I say, you know, doesn’t matter if you hire me or somebody else, it’s worth that one two hour consultation. Just to see where you are with your financial circumstances and your position with, with, with respect to real estate. You know, do we have do we have are we just talking about the marital residence or do we have multiple rental properties? That’s the best time to consult with an attorney just to get the information. So even if you don’t go through a divorce, you’re at least, you know, armed with that information so that it can maybe, you know, help you and your spouse moving forward. Because, you know, we’re not here to tell you that you should be getting divorced. You know, we’re here to help you. And so if your ultimate goal is not to get divorced, you know, we’ll help you as as best we can. You know, we can’t necessarily give financial advice or tax advice. But we can put you in touch with the right person? Yeah. And so if if divorce is is is, you know, a possibility or you think it might be on the horizon or the other side has brought it up. That’s what you would do. Consult with an attorney. Just so you don’t, you know, run into any issues that could that could have been avoided easily.
Yoni Schmidt 28:49
Yeah. Okay. And I guess, finally, what advice would you give anyone who’s navigating divorce while owning real estate to ensure that, you know, they’re making these informed decisions? I know that you know it. It can be an uncomfortable topic of discussion, but it happens. And, you know, I guess let’s arm the people with the knowledge, right?
Ben Aussenberg 29:11
Yeah. And it needs to be discussed. Whether, you know, ideally it would be discussed between, you know, spouses. Sometimes there will have to be discussed between the attorneys. But kind of getting out ahead and talking about it. Is the right thing to do. Because when you’re talking about real estate, you know it’s a little bit trickier dealing with real estate than dealing with a checking account with a few thousand dollars in it, let’s say. There are things that that, you know, take time. So if we’re, you know, renting and it takes time, if we’re selling it, it takes time. So getting out ahead. And having those conversations kind of early and often. Would be my advice. You know, no two cases are really the same. So the issues and complexities for one case are going to be different than the issues and circumstances in another case. So, you know, speaking with an attorney or speaking with your spouse and, you know, making sure you’re on the same page or even if you’re not on the same page, you know, what’s our plan moving forward? As long as there’s some plan, you know, that’s that’s going to be the best advice. You know, when navigating a divorce. When we’re talking about real estate. But yeah, speak with your attorney. Speak with your spouse. If you you know, a lot of people have, you know, friends or family that are that are real estate agents. I talked to real estate agents all the time. Even as as the attorney. So they’re often they’re oftentimes helpful resources. So that’s that’s what I would that’s what I would do is just keep the lines of communication open.
Yoni Schmidt 30:51
Yeah. Ben, this has been enlightening and very informative. I do remember one time when you really helped me out, there was a prospective client that was going through a divorce, and that prospective client had, you know, a spouse that was deployed overseas. And, you know, they told me that they were awarded the house right in the decree, and I sent it to you, and you kind of looked it over and you said, Yoni, you know, there’s nothing in here that actually says that they were awarded the house. So if you get involved here as a property manager and you take on this property, you may find yourself in a, you know. Precarious situation and, you know, three, six, nine, 12 months, who knows whenever that other spouse returns from their deployment. So I can’t tell you enough how much I appreciate that. If you’re looking for advice in the family law world, you need a prenup. You have any questions for Ben? Feel free to reach out. We’ll make sure that his contact information is available. Ben Aussenberg from Aussenberg Family Law Attorneys here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Ben, thank you so much for being here, educating me, educating our audience and, you know, enlightening us.
Ben Aussenberg 32:10
Of course. Yeah. It was nice speaking with you.
Outro 32:17
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