In this episode of The Same Day Podcast, host Mat Zalk is joined by Carson Gunther, Principal and Managing Partner at Out Partners, to discuss building mission-driven real estate portfolios in emerging markets. They break down why tertiary markets like Tulsa offer outsized opportunity, how disciplined underwriting and low leverage shape risk-adjusted returns, and what it takes to renovate homes with both families and investors in mind.
Building Mission-Driven Real Estate Portfolios in Emerging Markets With Carson Gunther
Carson Gunther is the Principal and Managing Partner at Out Partners, an LGBTQ+ founded private real estate equity firm. Out Partners is focused on delivering returns for investors by creating high-quality single-family housing in overlooked US markets like Tulsa. Leading more than $35 million in transactions, he oversees over $15 million in assets, consistently outperforming traditional multifamily returns by 5–10%. Carson brings a disciplined, data-driven approach to building resilient, mission-driven housing portfolios that balance community impact with risk-conscious investor returns.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [03:31] Carson Gunther explains how Out Partners found their niche in overlooked markets
- [10:00] Why focusing on tenant retention boosts long-term returns
- [12:36] The strict underwriting standards that cause many deals to be rejected
- [14:30] Renovation strategies that prioritize livability and drive equity growth
- [16:29] When doing the right thing costs more upfront but pays off over time
- [19:11] The playbook for buy, renovate, rent, and sell strategies
- [24:28] How to talk to investors honestly about real estate risks
- [30:31] The key questions to ask before choosing a real estate fund
In this episode…
Real estate investing is often framed as a numbers game, but the real edge may come from thinking smaller, slower, and more intentionally. This episode explores what happens when investors stop chasing the hottest markets and start paying attention to the places everyone else overlooks. Can disciplined investing and a people-first mindset actually outperform scale and speed?
For Carson Gunther, the answer is yes. He believes that the biggest opportunities in real estate come from being early in markets others dismiss and committing to doing things the right way once you’re there. Carson explains how focusing on tertiary markets allows his team to move faster, buy below replacement cost, and create real value through thoughtful renovations. He shares how building safe, high-quality homes for families is not just a moral choice, but a long-term strategy that reduces risk, improves retention, and strengthens returns. Instead of maximizing leverage or short-term cash flow, Carson emphasizes equity growth, conservative underwriting, and alignment between investors and communities. The result is a model where impact and performance reinforce each other, rather than compete.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Yonatan Schmidt on LinkedIn
- Mat Zalk on LinkedIn
- Keyrenter Property Management
- Keyrenter Property Management in Tulsa | Oklahoma City | Arkansas
- Keyrenter Property Management email address: [email protected]
- Carson Gunther on LinkedIn
- Out Partners
- Scott Reeves on LinkedIn
- Ryan Keyt on LinkedIn
Quotable Moments
- “We can move very fast. We know a lot about these markets. So let’s try and get in a little earlier.”
- “A lot of our money is made on the buy, but also a lot of our money is just made on the difference.”
- “Everything we just spoke about, how do we build a high-quality home that a family is going to want to live in?”
- “We don’t start this fund without knowing our exact target buyer and doing our models around those types of buyers.”
- “We have done everything we possibly can within our underwriting and within our operations to mitigate risk.”
Action Steps
- Focus on underserved markets early: Entering overlooked regions allows investors to establish scale, local knowledge, and pricing advantages before competition intensifies.
- Underwrite conservatively from the start: Stress-testing assumptions and limiting leverage protects portfolios during downturns and preserves long-term investor confidence.
- Invest in quality renovations, not shortcuts: Building durable, family-friendly homes reduces turnover, deferred maintenance, and long-term operational risk.
- Align mission with financial strategy: When community impact and returns reinforce each other, investments become more resilient and sustainable.
- Define your exit strategy upfront: Knowing exactly how and to whom assets will be sold guides smarter acquisition, renovation, and portfolio decisions.
Sponsor for this episode…
Keyrenter Property Management:
This episode is brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management.
Keyrenter Property Management is a full-service property management company that helps clients buy, renovate, and operate real estate assets.
The team helps clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management.
That’s why, no matter what rental you have — single-family homes, condos, townhomes, or apartments — they can give you the management solutions you need.
To learn more about their services, go to https://keyrenterpmc.com/ or send them an email at [email protected].
Episode Transcript
Intro 00:04
Welcome to The Same Day Podcast, where we discuss driving incremental business growth and other topics related to real estate, property management and entrepreneurship. Now to the show at hand.
Mat Zalk 00:20
Mat Zalk here, I’m the host of The Same Day Podcast, where I connect with top business experts in real estate leaders. Today’s episode is brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management. At Keyrenter Property Management, we are a full service property management company helping our clients buy, renovate and operate real estate assets. We help our clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management.
Doesn’t matter what rentals you have single family homes, condos, townhomes, apartments. We have the management solutions you need. Go to keyrenterpmc.com or [email protected].
Before introducing today’s guest, I want to give a huge shout out and a thank you to Scott Reeves of First National Bank of Coweta. He was formerly with Chickasaw Community Bank. When I think both Carson and I met Scott, he was there. He’s a great banker, a great friend, a solid relationships guy. And I think, Carson, you’d agree we can get your opinion on Scott in just a second, but I think you’d agree.
And if you need a banker that’s highly responsive and cares about your business, loves digging into cash flows and business deals. Scott Reeves is your guy. He’s just an absolutely wonderful human and a great banker. On to Carson to say nice things about him. Carson Gunther is the Co-founder and Managing Partner of Out Partners, a private real estate equity platform focused on transforming overlooked markets into durable, cash flowing portfolios for both accredited individuals and institutional capital.
His background spans commercial real estate, venture capital and graduate work, and entrepreneurship and finance, giving him a disciplined, data driven lens on acquisitions, portfolio construction, and operational excellence. Out Partners combines institutional underwriting with a mission driven approach to building safe, quality homes for families and delivering resilient, risk conscious returns for its investors. Carson Gunther, welcome to the pod. How are you?
Carson Gunther 02:06
Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.
Mat Zalk 02:08
Oh, it’s our pleasure to have you. We’ve we have known each other for a while. Interesting to have you on the pod. You’re partners with Ryan, who’s been a client of ours for a long, long time. And we have.
I mean, we started buying real estate, or Ryan started buying real estate, and we were kind of involved in the transactions back in the day. I don’t know what we’re talking. 18. 19.
Carson Gunther 02:32
Yeah. Yeah. Something maybe. Yeah, something like 17. 18.
19. Somewhere around there.
Mat Zalk 02:37
Like couldn’t go wrong. Almost buying real estate. Everything looks cheap in the rear view mirror, but boy, I mean, he got some. Yes, he did some exceptional things. So shout out to Ryan for for being one of the early believers in Keyrenter.
Also, I remember actually we had like a first meeting with Ryan, and one of our guys was like, I can get five of these things leased in the next like two weeks. And I remember thinking, God, do not over promise and under deliver. And then I think he leased six in the first week or something. And I was like, okay, he did it, okay, he did it. But let’s not over promise anymore.
Carson Gunther 03:12
Let’s talk.
Mat Zalk 03:13
Maybe tell us a little bit about the the origin story of our partners. How’d you get started with Ryan? How did you get started on kind of in the partnership and then and then buying real estate with the intentional, you know, careful, disciplined people first kind of philosophy?
Carson Gunther 03:31
Sure. Absolutely. You know, I think just like within the the intro here in the thank you to Scott, Scott was actually the driving force that connected Ryan and I initially here where I grew up in the Bay area. I’m from the East Bay, just past Oakland and Castro Valley area, and after spending about a decade within Tulsa, I ended up getting an opportunity to go out of commercial real estate into venture capital while getting a master’s in entrepreneurship and finance out there. And about as quick as I left real estate, I was immediately dragged back in.
I had an introduction call with Ryan. You know, Scott connected us and said, hey, I think, you know, you’re in San Francisco. He’s in San Francisco. You should, you know, go get together. Had a phone call.
We said, all right, we’re meeting over brunch. We’re going to we’re going to figure out where we can work together because, you know, the energy’s here. It’s right. And we need to just figure this out. And after conversation we both had, we realized that we were on the track to become principals and go in that direction.
And after we talked about particular investment thesis and different ideas, comparing notes on where we thought different markets were going across the US, we realized that we had very aligned thesis, but we were also just different enough to be able to play devil’s advocate with each other and really battle each other and sharpen each other’s edge to move forward. And so, you know, like I said, about as quick as I left real estate, I was in VC for maybe 6 to 8 months on the biotech side and ended up leaving and becoming a principal at Out Partners and starting this with Ryan here. And so I like to tell people I was I was dragged back in as fast as I could get away. And I don’t regret a single minute and I love it. And so where we really started identifying, you know, our first investment thesis to really take a lot of action on was when we were thinking about the future of residential homes within the United States and Canada.
What we identified was the lack of institutional capital flowing into tertiary markets like Tulsa. Right. We have a lot of guys that are going to go say, for example, break ground and develop a residential development in, you know, the central US. You’re probably going to choose Kansas City or Dallas or Houston or something of the like. You’re probably not going to choose Tulsa because a number of factors, one of it might be yields.
Another one of it might be your infrastructure that you have there for your your own development teams. And then the third one, which maybe is the most influential so far, is the capital that’s accessible to want to go and back Tulsa, your family office or your hedge fund might not want to back you as a developer to go break ground and build 500 homes in Tulsa, compared to going and breaking ground and building five 500 homes in Dallas as easily. And we know that this is going to be changing given population statistics and demand drivers that are continuously developing with across Oklahoma and other tertiary markets. Say, for example, like Wichita up in Kansas or Oklahoma City and Tulsa and Oklahoma or Fayetteville in Arkansas. So that whole hub right around there are seeing a lot of traction.
And so our goal was we can move very fast. We know a lot about these markets. So let’s try and get in a little earlier and be a bigger fish within a small pond rather than trying to go raise. You know, even $100 million in Dallas right now is just a drop in the bucket. And and so that’s a secondary market.
We realize we have a huge competitive advantage of knowing the competitive landscape across Tulsa. And the other side of it here is how do we realistically not just have an edge on the investment side, which we’ve established that we’re going to have, but bring more value to the community itself? And so what we identified is a lot of landlords within Tulsa and not just Tulsa in particular, but tertiary markets. You can go really to any state and you’re going to see this Conway, Arkansas, for example. Right?
It’s just in the middle of Arkansas. A lot of landlords here, they are not institutional, sure, but but given that they also don’t have the same systems and procedures to ensure quality across their portfolio, you see some landlords being extremely high touch and really understanding. Okay. I want to make sure that my house is very well taken care of. I’m going to do quarterly routine inspections and be super overboard with it.
And some landlords will just set it and forget it and forget they even own the house, you know? Of course not. But you know, getting to the point where we’ve seen so much deferred maintenance, especially on single family residential portfolios, I’ve transacted as a broker within the region. It was almost appalling in some cases. And I know, you know, I’m kind of preaching to the choir here.
I know you’ve seen it. To a greater extent in scale than I have on on what some people will just leave when it comes to deferred maintenance. But it’s really something that that we felt mission. We felt a call for a mission to make sure that we did right, and building safe, high quality homes for families within the area was a competitive advantage and also a mission goal for us, because an apartment complex is not going to be a family oriented product. So as institutional capital flows into a new market, we looked at what are the types of assets that are going to get saturated first.
So most likely high density. So multifamily, class B multifamily, whatever it might be. And we know that they’re not going to be bringing three bedroom, four bedroom apartments into a market like this. And so long story short, you know, from meeting to investment thesis to to what we’re doing and how we approached it, that’s really how we all got started.
Mat Zalk 09:14
I mean, Ryan’s long had that kind of people first perspective of providing high quality housing in affordable markets. We meshed. We meshed on that really early because it you know, whereas some of our clients may want to keep their properties kind of crappy and take less rent. His perspective was always even from the early days, like, let’s renovate this and make it a nice product, a nicer product than somebody else can get on the market, and maybe price it a touch lower than what we could get so that we get access to reasonable families that want. You know, a reasonable residents that want to be in a, in a home.
So we’ve always kind of meshed on that perspective. And he’s never been afraid to do nice renovations, frankly.
Carson Gunther 10:00
And I think there’s a big part of that too, where, you know, you think of in any other business, you’re looking at lifetime value of a customer and your customer acquisition cost, right. And comparing those where I feel like a lot of landlords on the residential side, forget about that. And they they say, okay, well what’s that top dollar rent that we can get. And maybe in a year that tenant has gone right after their lease is up rather than having your extensions and renewals. Yeah, yeah.
Mat Zalk 10:24
What’s the what is the current status of Out Partners. Kind of what what sort of capital has been raised deployed. What sort of assets under management right now? Tell me the give me the broad landscape at the moment.
Carson Gunther 10:38
Sure. Yeah. Across from the initial fund that we launched as well as our personal portfolios we believe were around 15 million under management within the Oklahoma region. And the whole goal here is really to just build the track record and continue to work with investors that are interested in high impact and high yield returns in a tertiary market, where we’re able to find the returns within Tulsa and other areas like this across Oklahoma, that far outpace what you would find just four hours north or south up in Kansas City or Dallas. And you know, the direction that we’re moving here in is, you know, just build lasting investment offerings and products to investors so that they can be completely hands off, but still feel and know that their their returns are in good hands and that their capital is in a good fiduciary, you know, place to, to put it that’s going to actually return them yields.
And so we’re, we’re moving here is we have our single family fund one. It’s wrapping up here on the 31st at the very end of the year. Wow. And we will be closing it, closing the doors to investors. And whoever is with us will continue to be with in that offering.
And from there, we’re looking to customize and build some new investment products moving forward in the next year.
Mat Zalk 11:57
Cool. In that $15 million asset under management, how many homes do you think that is unit wise?
Carson Gunther 12:04
It’s about floating around 100 right now. And you know there’s a handful of multifamily mixed in with that. So we are at seven homes right now and in one tranche. And then we’re looking to add on three more just pending some negotiations, hopefully closing it out here at the end of the year. And you know, maybe 60 or so in total.
Mat Zalk 12:25
Yeah. When when you’re looking at deals, what are the top 1 or 2 reasons why you may walk away from a deal that looks decent or great on paper?
Carson Gunther 12:36
Yeah, I think for us we have a much stricter underwriting standard than most people have here within the region. And so that that in itself filters out a ton of deals that may have been good for some other people, but we we what we do at our fund here and within our shop is we don’t take that much leverage compared to what most investors getting into single family would usually take. So our loans, we usually are putting down 35 to 40% per home. And by the time we renovate and we stabilize, our loan to value is 50 or less. Wow.
And so we have a ton of equity within our homes for the time in which we hold them. But we still have equity, multiple returns that we underwrite the product to. So, for example, a home that may have worked that just spitballing some numbers here at 150,000 for most people, if you’re putting a 20% down and you’ll lease it out at market rate and you’re looking at maybe a cash on cash return perspective, that home usually wouldn’t work for us unless we buy it for 130,000. And so a lot of our money is made on the buy, but also a lot of our money is just made on, on the difference between how much can we add the value to it, to that new after repair value. So we really, really focus equity multiples for our investors because that’s what ultimately we’re, we’re giving most of our returns on is equity multiples at the end of the fund, rather than a cashflow focused product that a lot of people jump into real estate hoping to see a couple hundred bucks a month here, a couple hundred bucks a month there.
We’re very, very focused on the equity side and then having the cash flow to service the rest of the debt.
Mat Zalk 14:11
How does that translate into the work that you put into a house to force that equity growth? What do you do to a house in terms of right upgrades to systems, reconfigurations, exterior, interior?
Carson Gunther 14:30
Yeah. Good question. I think a lot of it really just comes down to, you know, focusing the mission, right? Everything we just spoke about, how do we build a high quality home that a family is going to want to live in and feel safe to live in and want to continue to stay in and ultimately buy down the road if that’s their their goal. And from there, we just set the renovation budget on, on what’s going to be required to hit that goal.
And usually it’s not just a standard make ready for a rental. It’s putting in granite countertops, it’s putting in nice appliances that people are going to want to use. But, you know, of course, still having some builders grade stuff that’s going to withstand a turnover from a tenant. So sure, LVP that’s scratch resistant or budgeting the types of drywall or paint repairs and your fixtures that are still nice but not going to break if they’re they’re handled a little rough. And then from that is every dollar more that we spend on renovation, we can effectively look at as $1 less we’ll spend on the purchase price.
And so that’s why we’re very strict on some of our underwriting and why we require that lower price is because we approach these renovations from, you know, like you said earlier off the call, it’s not if or it’s and or or you know and that. So if there’s one more requirement we’re going to hit it not sacrifice a different requirement to, to, you know, hit a different standard. And that’s what brings our renovation budgets fairly high. But it gives us an incredible product that we would be more than comfortable with selling the home to a family and leaving that there, or continuing to hold it for a rental as if, you know, we’re continuing to pursue our strategy.
Mat Zalk 16:11
Interesting. Is it is it always? Economically beneficial to to do the right thing for a tenant or a neighborhood or, or have there been scenarios where things cost you in the in the short term, but you’re going to do it the right way anyways?
Carson Gunther 16:29
Yeah, there there are definitely situations in which I’m sure You could run across where it’s not economically beneficial. Like for example, it doesn’t make sense to, you know, go into a neighborhood where your average home value is is roughly 200,000 or less and put a McMansion on a lot for 600,000. It’s right. There’s going to be some some excuse me, there’s going to be some stages and some hurdles that you’re going to go through, and you’re going to build your product to whatever your local average quality is. But but you’re still going to have to hit certain standards that, that align with your mission, whatever that might be.
And so with us, it’s, you know, does is this house conducive to raise a family. And and if the answer is no, then we just simply won’t buy it. And if the answer is we can make it in this way for this cost and it’s going to be worth it to us, then that’s what we’re going to do. And so, for example, if we need to add another bedroom or if we need to completely redo the layout like we’re doing on one of our projects, we will do that. We’ll reframe the house and we’ll make it.
So then this is a place that somebody is going to feel comfortable to, to raise a family in. And it’s not going to be an awkward situation where you’re just piling some, you know, some people into a house and knowing it’s going to work because we might be advantaged in the market and have the only rental on the market, for example. But but there are I think your question is, is kind of spot on is understanding is are we just throwing money at a mission or are we actually focusing on the returns? And I think the answer to that is we simply don’t buy the house if we believe it’s going to be in that case. And sometimes, you know, this is going to be for for most investors, you’re going to jump into a project and maybe it might be more than you think you can handle or whatever that might be.
And I think it is the right thing to do mission wise to go through. You know, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Bite the bullet and spend your extra cost that it might have cost you to still go to your quality and whatever you’re actually setting out to do, because the rest of your returns in your portfolio will either pad that one right. It’s not worth setting up a fund or building a portfolio if you don’t expect some trials and tribulations from some projects. But then the other side is usually what we’ve been seeing is the marketplace will compensate long term down the road, whether that’s extra equity, you know, purchase price bump on the sale at the very end or, you know, potentially a tenant staying for longer and having less turnover costs.
So whatever that might be, it might save your cash flow.
Mat Zalk 18:58
Within our partners, are you buying and selling properties? Are you doing renovations and selling properties, or are you strictly buying and holding real estate?
Carson Gunther 19:11
We are buying and holding for the life of the fund. Super good question. So we we this fund is a lot shorter timeline than most private equity funds across the US, where we’re on a four year timeline. And so within four years, we’re purchasing all of our homes, renovating them, renting them out for a few years and then selling them at the very end. So we’re not selling homes in particular intentionally throughout the fund, but we’re prepared to do so in case, you know, crystal balls in the shop.
I don’t know what’s going to be happening here in the future. But in case we did need to sell our portfolio, we’ve built enough equity to where we can still deliver returns. But we are intentionally structuring it to hold for a couple of years as rentals and then sell at the very end.
Mat Zalk 19:53
What are you paying to repair your crystal ball? How much, how much? How much does that run? Is your crystal ball repair guy? Less expensive than mine.
Carson Gunther 20:02
You know, unfortunately, crystal. Crystal ball repair guy is.
Mat Zalk 20:06
Very hard to.
Carson Gunther 20:06
Find. So we’ll see.
Mat Zalk 20:07
Very, very.
Carson Gunther 20:08
Hard. He’s. He’s very hard to find, but I’ll let you know when it’s back up and running.
Mat Zalk 20:14
Would you expect that the the disposition of the assets at the end of the fund life will be to primary home buyers or to other investors or any, I guess, kind of a crystal ball question, but what do you what do you know?
Carson Gunther 20:27
It definitely is not actually that. That is a great question. And I like to tell people, especially when it comes to business. And this was when I was on the VC side. This was when I was in commercial real estate.
And this is even now. I don’t like to start things without knowing exactly how it’s going to be ending. And so we don’t start this fund without knowing our exact target buyer and doing our models around those types of buyers and different scenarios. And so a lot of private equity funds in the United States, when you build a residential portfolio, are going to seek an exit to another private equity fund that wants to expand their holdings within a region. But we realize that there’s going to be a haircut on your prices if you sell to an investor, because they’re going to be buying on your revenue of the portfolio and your cap rate, essentially.
Whereas the benefit that we see in single family is that you can sell to the market. And so really we have the opportunity and the ability to sell the portfolio to a private equity shop, if that ends up being the best way to move financially for our investors. But we are preparing entirely to sell these homes individually peaced out on the market. So as tenants start moving out or ending their leases, we will be listing them and selling them and liquidating a portfolio that way.
Mat Zalk 21:43
What’s really interesting is that the common orthodoxy, I would agree, is that you’d expect to take a haircut on a portfolio because you’re selling to an investor who needs to make a return. I heard the other day from an appraiser, however, very contrarily, that some portfolios sell at a premium because you’ve gone through and done all of the hard work associated with putting 15, 20, 30, 100 individual assets together, and they can deploy a bunch of capital at once, and it’s more attractive to institutional buyers. So you’ve put a bunch of time and effort into signing individual deeds and loans and everything else, and they can now come through from an institutional perspective. You may have required 9 or 10 or 12% to do that individually, and they would say it’s pretty stable and I would take 5% to do that. So they’ll pay a premium for that.
I had not heard that perspective before.
Carson Gunther 22:41
We’re starting to see some of that in different markets, like I mentioned at Dallas or Houston. I’ve seen a couple transactions go across or even up in in the Minneapolis Saint Paul area. I’ve seen some single family portfolio transactions happen in that kind of way. It’s definitely on the more rare side, but it’s really just asking yourself, okay, am I going to take a haircut of X percent below market on my asset value by selling to an investor? Because that’s where cap rates are and interest rates are?
Or am I going to take a realtor commission total across my full portfolio, plus closing costs? And whichever one is, the greater you go with at the end of the day, if both of them satisfy your mission and are satisfying the way that you’ve chosen to operate. Then you just really compare the financials and sometimes, you know it works out just depending on where, you know, depending on the size of your portfolio, the scale, how organized it might be for an institutional to want to come in and integrate that into their portfolio as well as their cost of debt, to be able to afford your asking price. Yeah. You know, you’re going to be at a good spot regardless of where you are.
So it’s a super interesting perspective. We’re starting to see that.
Mat Zalk 23:50
When you’re talking to potential investors LPs in your fund. I would expect that some newer investors are kind of thinking about real estate as an automatically safe bet. Is that true? I mean, do some people view it as as.
Carson Gunther 24:10
Roughly equivalent to a Treasury safe? How do you how do you zero risk guaranteed.
Mat Zalk 24:17
Better than the better, better than the federal government. How do you explain real risks to people without, like, either scaring them on one side or overselling security on the other?
Carson Gunther 24:28
Sure. Yeah. I think because we are a registered 560 fund with the SEC, there are a lot of securities laws that we have to maintain and adhere to, and a lot of that includes being able to disclose risks and and investors in the right way where, you know, sometimes at the end of the day, we just have a candid conversation with an investor and say, look, you want to put in 100,000 or 500,000 or whatever this might be, into the fund. Are you comfortable with understanding that you might not make any money? You might lose up to your total amount invested, whatever this might be, and are you going to be completely devastated for the rest of your life on this?
Is this going to be a significant impact on on your life moving forward? And if that’s the case, then this is probably not a good sphere for you to play in. There are other places that you can go for lower risk with some type of of, you know, mitigated returns. T-bills are in the fours right now, so you can put your money there. But if you want to go and make on the equity multiple side, whatever this might be, then there are substantial risks that you need to understand that there are, you know, without being as scary like that, we kind of just talk to people and say, look, we’ve done everything we possibly can within our underwriting and within our operations to mitigate risk.
We know that we could probably make up to a 5 or 6 equity multiple on some of our houses that we’ve been able to do if we leverage the hell out of it. And we ran it in a very particular way that that really, you know, cut the line. But we don’t we buy below market. We buy even below what we think we need to make a project work. We overestimate our renovation costs.
So whatever bids that we’ve been getting, we add a percentage onto that for our next houses that we look at. And we even very conservatively estimate an increase in property value growth. So by the time we hit our after repair value and we stabilize a project, we’re only estimating a 1% appreciation per year, which we’ve seen in the Tulsa market extremely conservative. And a lot of it is, you know, like I said, our crystal balls are in the shop and my repair guy is somewhere off in D.C. and so we have no idea what’s going to be happening with property rates moving forward. And, you know, we’re not really here to invest on speculation.
We’re here to invest on what is the active value that we can put into a project to, to increase that. So that comes from a lot of our renovations as well as our operational expertise moving forward, you know, with people and important stakeholders such as key renter to be able to help us manage a portfolio. And so that’s really what we’re doing is I can tell you and reassure you that we have done everything we can to mitigate as much risk. We take almost no debt compared to most investors, we’re only halfway levered once once we do this. So property values literally have to drop 50% in order for us to lose our money on our stabilized projects.
Right. And so this is what we’re preparing for. But despite all of that, there are still legitimate risks. There are risks everywhere. There’s real risk.
There is market risk. There is tenant demographic risk there. There’s all of this. And so what we’ve done is per the SEC rules, we’ve and our PM, our private placement memorandum for our fund offering, we have about 20 pages worth of risks that we’ve written down. We’ve written everything even to a tornado can come through and you know, by God’s will magically smite every single house within our portfolio.
You know, and that’s that’s a legitimate, you know, there’s there’s environmental risk that you see everything that you could possibly have. And reading through that and coming to terms with and understanding these types of risks and then looking at what we’ve done and having the confidence in the operator and the investment strategy is how you approach a deal like this. That’s what I tell people is that’s how you’re going to gauge it. If you still feel comfortable after reading the 20 pages worth of risks that that we’ve tried to outline everything from something as fantastical as what I just mentioned before, or to as real as, hey, material costs on lumber could go up because we’re in a trade war with Canada. You know, whatever that might be.
Maybe some more legitimate ones that we’re starting to see. That’s really what we kind of tell people. And despite that, we’re still getting x multiples on equity. We’re hitting about 2.2 x for most of our projects right now on our projected multiple.
Mat Zalk 28:52
What are the constraints that are thrust upon you by being a registered investment vehicle with the SEC, besides 20 pages of constraints.
Carson Gunther 29:05
Besides 20 pages of risk, we have, you know, all all the little things that you wouldn’t expect. So we have to make sure you have to check anti-terrorism lists. Whenever we bring on an investor to make sure that we do. And so, you know, we’ve checked that with all of our investors. It’s very funny.
It’s a clean bill of health, luckily, but I think more so jokes aside here it’s it’s more so just adhering to SEC outlined accreditation investor statuses. And so all the people that come in and invest with us need to be accredited investor for this particular fund. That might not always be the case in the future as we move forward. And then there are also disclosure items that we need to make aware and submit to our investors just through our offerings. And so it’s it’s not on the operation side of the real estate itself.
It’s really nothing different. But when you are holding funds, you have to hold them in a certain type of way. When you are bringing on investors, you have to show them a certain series of documents, such as your 20 pages of risks. Plus, you know, and really it’s it’s just on the, the administrative side, it looks different.
Mat Zalk 30:16
If a person were considering their first private real estate investment, what what questions matter more than what is most likely first on their mind? What is what are the projected returns?
Carson Gunther 30:31
Sure. Yeah. Outside of the projected returns, you know, a very obvious one that a lot of people will think of is track record. Whether you think those words directly or think of, how can you quantify or qualify the operator that you’re investing with to know that they’ve done this before or have the ability to do this moving forward and from there is is going to lead you down your own series of questions that might go with that. But, you know, something I would consider is even just personal merit of the operating team.
Are they operating team that’s encumbered by a lot of other stuff? Are they doing this as a side job? Are they managing your wealth directly as your as your main job? And then also, are they somebody to sit around and wait for you to reach out to them versus them consistently following up with you? Or are they diligent about communication?
And are they ethical to be able to manage your money as well as manage the project in the right way? So there’s a number of considerations to to take on with an operator. But it’s really, you know, looking at the competency of the person that’s going to be managing your funds is almost as important as the returns in the first place. And I think this applies to almost every single vertical of of financial management. We don’t go to an investment advisor just for our general portfolio management.
If we see them as an unethical person, for example. Yeah. Yeah. No. They have a gambling problem.
Exactly. If I, if I see my if I see my portfolio manager in Vegas more than once a year, I think I’m probably going to back away from that.
Mat Zalk 32:07
Speaking of seeing people in compromising places, I’m for full transparency. I’m. I am an investor now partners. And I get your quarterly meetings and I’ve seen you on some floor joists in some in some framed houses with no sheetrock and potentially with some nails exposed in places they shouldn’t be. How much time are you?
Are you spending on renovations, you know, overseeing that stuff? How much do you trust your GCS versus get out there? I mean, are you actually ever swinging a hammer? It’s fun, right? I mean, I think those of us that are high performance is fun, like to go out and swing hammers and maybe hang a little bit of sheetrock.
Are you doing that or are you trusting it all to your GCS. What’s your what’s your general cadence for overseeing renovation?
Carson Gunther 32:51
Good question. I think if I were the one to actually swing the hammer and put the sheetrock, we’d go against our mission of building high quality homes for families. So we put a lot of trust in our team to do that, in particular, our teams in general, but I am consistently checking up on the properties through our GCS and through our contractor network we have out there. And then when I am physically going to the properties, I’m trying to do any maintenance that I possibly can. So earlier this year back in what was it?
Was it may I believe we had those crazy storms that came through Tulsa, really high winds throughout the the whole time. The end of April, early May. And a tree on one of our houses that we just acquired at the time had fallen over, not thankfully, into the house. It missed the home, but I went out there and borrowed a neighbor’s saw, cut it, cut down the rest of it, and then pulled it out to the street. So I’m physically going out there and I’m trying to make the impact that I can.
But we hire, you know, extremely competent crew of people to be able to go through and manage these projects and renovate them. And, you know, on the subject of my oversight, I am personally overseeing every single cent that goes into these projects. And so every time I get an invoice I am going through. I’m checking the prices, even to Home Depot. Okay, well, what does this what does this, you know, pack of, you know, deck nails, you know, actually go for at Lowe’s and Home Depot.
And is this accurately represented here on this on this quote. So I’m going line by line by line item and trying to consistently verify the costs that we’re getting quoted for and then negotiating the labor on it. And then from there, I’m doing all the accounting to make sure that this type of cash is actually spent in the right place. I’m getting all the receipts to understand, okay, was this spent in the right way? Did we come under budget?
Did we go over budget and how or why? And moving forward in that way so financially diligent more so than physically. And then, you know, actually being there. And then on the cadences when I’m there, I’m checking on every property to make sure the work is done right.
Mat Zalk 34:55
It’s a lot, it’s a lot.
Carson Gunther 34:57
It’s a.
Mat Zalk 34:58
Lot. In addition, sawing down trees during storms.
Carson Gunther 35:02
Yes. Yeah. Luckily, I didn’t have to remove the stump. I just had to take the the big old branches that came off the trunk.
Mat Zalk 35:10
If and when fund one is, is immensely successful at the end of four years, what is the next? What is what is five years from now look like?
Carson Gunther 35:23
Five years from now in particular to the fund looks like we are fully exited and we’ve returned all of our capital to our investors, and we get glowing reviews from yourself and many other people. And hopefully the returns are satisfactory enough to want to roll into Single Family Fund two, or we plan to raise 30 to 40 million and go across the entire region. And so this would not just include eastern Oklahoma, but maybe southern and central Kansas or northern Texas, or certain areas on the eastern Texas or Arkansas, you know, within the whole region. That makes sense to expand within it. Additionally, five years from now for Out Partners.
Oh, actually go ahead, go ahead.
Mat Zalk 36:06
I was just going to say so fund two won’t really open until fund one is is closed. Is sorry is what do you call it for?
Carson Gunther 36:13
For family. Exactly.
Mat Zalk 36:15
Okay.
Carson Gunther 36:16
Yeah. Fully dispossessed. That’s right. Yeah. And and so we don’t plan on doing a formal fund in the same way.
We plan on perhaps doing some syndication projects in between. And these might be certain situations with close partners or maybe some institutional investors, like family offices to joint venture or maybe just some, some people within our network that weren’t able to get into fund one and maybe want a more bespoke one off project kind of partnership. And so we’re more than happy to to look at something like that. We we really plan on Out Partners as a whole, doing these things in a way where we are offering and building investment products. So in the same way, you might go and pick up an iPhone, right?
This might be an iPhone Pro or 17 Pro, or you just want the 17 or whatever that might be. We’ll have particular investment fund products that you can buy that will yield the returns that that are advertised. And so we have some some projects that are in the works right now to potentially be launched here in 2026. And we’ll keep you in close update with that. And then we’re starting to interface a lot more with our institutional crowd.
So family offices, multifamily offices and Rias and hedge funds we’re starting to work with to create some products with them, with some of the people in our network that have been approaching us.
Mat Zalk 37:36
Cool. Carson, what are some ways that people can reach out to you if they’re interested in investing in the first fund, or getting with you guys on a on a potential joint venture? How do people reach you?
Carson Gunther 37:50
Of course. Yeah. People can always reach us through any contact form on our website. Out Partners.com UBT partners or in reaching us at our main line, invest at our partners. So feel free to send us an email.
It’s very heavily monitored and that line will always be open moving forward. And then, you know, feel free to reach out to me personally on LinkedIn, Carson Gunther or Instagram or Facebook. I’m more than happy to answer and chat in that way. And if you are interested in joining fund one, we are closing the doors here at the end of 2025. December 31st on the last day is the last day to sign any docs and so more than happy to have you on board if you are a good fit and we will help you through that decision process to see if you are a good fit for the fund.
Mat Zalk 38:38
Just a reminder, you have to not be on the terrorist watch list.
Carson Gunther 38:44
You’re not allowed to be on the terrorist watch list. And just like that, he is not. So you got to make sure that.
Mat Zalk 38:50
Carson Gunther is the co-founder and managing partner of Out Partners. As you heard today. Now partners is a private real estate equity platform focused on transforming overlooked markets into durable, cash flowing portfolios for both accredited individual individuals and institutional capital. His background spans commercial real estate, venture capital and graduate work, and entrepreneurship and finance, giving him a disciplined, data driven lens on acquisition, portfolio, construction, acquisitions, portfolio construction, and operational excellence. Our partners combines institutional underwriting with a mission driven approach to building safe, quality homes for families and delivering resilient, risk conscious returns for investors.
Carson, we appreciate you telling us a little bit about our partners and helping our listeners potentially get involved in some of the great work that you’re doing.
Carson Gunther 39:39
Absolutely. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me.
Mat Zalk 39:41
Take care.
Outro 39:46
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