Building Generational Wealth Through Multifamily Syndications With Wayne Courreges III

In this episode of The Same Day Podcast, host Mat Zalk sits down with Wayne Courreges III, Founder and Managing Principal of CREI Partners, to discuss building generational wealth through multifamily syndications. They explore why multifamily can outperform single-family investments, how to vet general partners before committing capital, and the benefits of off-market deal sourcing. Wayne also shares strategies for creating exceptional investor experiences.

Building Generational Wealth Through Multifamily Syndications With Wayne Courreges III

Wayne Courreges III is the Founder and Managing Principal of CREI Partners, a real estate investment firm with over $50 million in assets under management across Texas, Louisiana, and Alabama. He helps busy entrepreneurs and professionals build generational wealth through passive investments in commercial real estate syndications. A former US Marine Corps Corporal, Wayne has over 16 years of experience in commercial real estate, including a lengthy tenure at CBRE.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

• [3:13] Wayne Courreges III gives an overview of CREI Partners’ portfolio mix and target asset classes
• [7:54] Differences in stress and mindset between W-2 corporate life and entrepreneurship
• [13:01] Why multifamily investments can outperform single-family rentals
• [18:09] Key criteria for evaluating a general partnership before investing
• [22:30] Hiring investor relations and asset management talent to enhance returns and investor experience
• [35:16] Wayne shares the story of sourcing and acquiring his first syndicated multifamily deal off-market
• [43:23] Details on the Texas Multifamily Passive and Active Investors virtual meetup
• [45:56] Educating passive investors on underwriting and avoiding overly aggressive projections

In this episode…

For many, the leap from single-family rentals to multifamily syndications feels daunting — filled with questions about risk, returns, and how to find the right partners. But what if the key lies not just in the asset itself, but in the strategy and relationships behind it?

According to Wayne Courreges III, a seasoned commercial real estate investor, the answer starts with focusing on scalable, well-managed multifamily assets that generate consistent cash flow and long-term appreciation. He highlights the importance of evaluating both the deal and the people running it, ensuring that trust, transparency, and operational excellence are in place before investing. This disciplined approach, he explains, can provide higher returns, greater diversification, and fewer headaches than managing scattered single-family properties. Wayne also emphasizes the role of off-market opportunities, strong asset management, and proactive investor relations in sustaining performance and maximizing value.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Mat Zalk on LinkedIn
• Yonatan Schmidt on LinkedIn
• Keyrenter Property Management
• Keyrenter Property Management in Tulsa | Oklahoma City | Arkansas
• Keyrenter Property Management email address: [email protected]
• Wayne Courreges III on LinkedIn
• CREI Partners
• Passive Investor Coaching
• “How Public Adjusters Help Property Owners Win Bigger Insurance Claims With Andy Gurczak” on The Same Day Podcast
• Buy Back Your Time: Get Unstuck, Reclaim Your Freedom, and Build Your Empire by Dan Martell
• Who Not How: The Formula to Achieve Bigger Goals Through Accelerating Teamwork by Dan Sullivan with Dr. Benjamin Hardy
• Texas Multifamily Passive and Active Investors Meetup

Quotable Moments

• “Every property we buy is its own business, so we underwrite it from a revenue expense side.”
• “I think I started in single-family when I was in the Marine Corps; I was 19.”
• “Syndication allows you to pull money together to buy something you couldn’t maybe do on your own.”
• “If you’re not doing the little stuff, you’re not doing the big stuff.”
• “If you’re micromanaging people, you’re not buying back your time.”

Action Steps

1. Diversify your investment portfolio through multifamily syndications: Pooling capital with other investors reduces risk exposure while offering access to larger, more stable assets.
2. Vet general partners thoroughly before investing: Ensuring they have integrity, experience, and clear decision-making authority helps safeguard your capital and expectations.
3. Seek off-market opportunities: Direct-to-seller deals or early broker relationships can yield better pricing and higher returns than competitive market listings.
4. Invest in strong asset management and investor relations: Dedicated professionals ensure properties perform well operationally and investors receive transparent, timely communication.
5. Use conservative underwriting with sensitivity analyses: Modeling different scenarios prepares you for market changes and builds trust with investors through realistic projections.

Sponsor for this episode…

Keyrenter Property Management:

This episode is brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management.

Keyrenter Property Management is a full-service property management company that helps clients buy, renovate, and operate real estate assets.

The team helps clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management.

That’s why, no matter what rental you have — single-family homes, condos, townhomes, or apartments — they can give you the management solutions you need.

To learn more about their services, go to https://keyrenterpmc.com/ or send them an email at [email protected].

Episode Transcript

Intro 00:05

Welcome to The Same Day Podcast, where we discuss driving incremental business growth and other topics related to real estate, property management and entrepreneurship. Now to the show at hand.

Mat Zalk 00:20

Mat Zalk here. I’m the host of The Same Day Podcast, where I connect with top business experts and real estate leaders. One past guest includes Andy Gurczak of All City Adjusting, talking about his role as a public adjuster, fighting for every dollar you deserve on an insurance claim. And he’s helped a number of different clients of ours. In his podcast, dives into the details of how a lost claim works and how he can fight on your behalf as an investor.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management. At Keyrenter Property Management, we are a full service property management company helping our clients buy, renovate and operate real estate assets. We help our clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management. Listen, Wayne, your asset management team will know undoubtedly how hard it is to line up contractors to get a make ready done in a reasonable amount of time after a tenant leaves a property. Contractors are busy. The work seems to drag on forever, and all that leads to lost rental income. 

 For companies like CREI. At Keyrenter, we line up our dedicated vendors so that turns can happen super quickly, and we get more money back into the pockets of our owners. That’s why no matter what rental you have single family homes, condos, townhomes, we have the property management solutions that you need. Go to keyrenterpmc.com or email us at [email protected]. 

 I’m excited for today’s guest. Wayne is the Founder and Lead Sponsor of CREI Partners, which manages over 60 million in commercial real estate assets across Texas, Louisiana and Alabama. Wayne helps busy professionals build generational wealth through passive investments in apartment communities and storage developments. He’s a former Marine Corps general, and Wayne brings over 16 years of experience from a fortune 125 real estate firm and now focuses full time on creating high yield returns while giving back to local communities. The man is an Eagle Scout. 

 A corporal was a corporal in the Marines and has lived a few lives in the business world. As you’re going to hear. Visit creipartners.com for more information. Wayne Courreges, welcome to the show.

Wayne Courreges III 02:16

Thank you Mat. How are you doing?

Mat Zalk 02:18

I’m great. How are you doing?

Wayne Courreges III 02:19

I’m good. I’m excited to. You look good. Real estate.

Mat Zalk 02:22

That’s what’s important.

Wayne Courreges III 02:24

I don’t.

Mat Zalk 02:24

Know. I don’t know how many people actually watch this on YouTube. So maybe it’s more important to have a have a good voice, I don’t know.

Wayne Courreges III 02:30

Yeah. I think I have like the afternoon shadow probably going on. I have to shave every day.

Mat Zalk 02:35

So if I don’t, my kids harass me. They don’t let me get close, get too much, too much prickly. Cool. It’s great to have you on the show. I am, I am super curious about the general business model.

I mean, I understand CREI does Siri CREI Partners? Does general syndications of commercial assets before we I want to get into your history. But before we get into your history, tell us CREI Partners like what is the what’s the general asset class that you guys work on? What’s what are the specifics of that commercial asset class that you work on?

Wayne Courreges III 03:13

Yeah. So 80% of our portfolio approximately is multifamily 100 to 150 plus units. But yeah, 100 150 is our strike zone 1980 or newer primarily in the Texas Triangle, Houston, San Antonio. If I dived in a little deeper on on our markets there, then we’ve got about 20% or so. That’s more development.

We’ve done a RV boat business storage all enclosed 20 by 50 space units. We’re in the process of developing a multifamily 150 unit, multifamily, beautiful class A property here in Bryan. We’re doing a hotel and an office retail. It’s all part of this mixed use, but we’re the lead developer on it. Beautiful. 

 And yeah, we’ve done so primarily multifamily with some other alternative asset classes.

Mat Zalk 04:04

On the stuff that you’re developing. You don’t consider yourself a merchant developer though. You’re you’re a build and hold.

Wayne Courreges III 04:10

It’s typically 5 to 7 years on on all of our properties. Yeah. Yeah.

Mat Zalk 04:14

Excellent. Let’s go back now because I understand a little bit about what’s going on. You’re an Eagle Scout?

Wayne Courreges III 04:21

Yes.

Mat Zalk 04:21

You’re a Marine Corps corporal.

Wayne Courreges III 04:27

Another? Not as lean, not as mean, but still Marine. Yes. Thank you.

Mat Zalk 04:33

And you’ve lived, like, three separate lives. You’ve got three degrees. You’ve done a stint in commercial real estate with CBRE. And then he jumped out and went on your own with CREI.

Wayne Courreges III 04:46

And that stint was 16 years. So I was it was a big chunk of my.

Mat Zalk 04:49

That’s a whole life. That’s a whole life right there. That’s a whole life. What’s the what’s the biggest Difference about being an entrepreneur and and working doing a 16 year stint at CBRE.

Wayne Courreges III 05:03

So at CBRE, I’ve really had a great I mean, I would say looking back, I had a, you know, I liked the team, I liked the atmosphere. I did like that every few years I was able to go to a different city. And so like we started off in Washington DC, that’s where out of the Marine Corps, the Marine Corps, 2003 2007, CBRE was hiring junior military officer type people where they already had the leadership skills they just needed to teach property management or commercial real estate. So joined CBRE in June of 2007 and, you know, took on more responsibility there. Went to Houston, got some really great opportunities to manage some trophy properties like large, you know, 40 to 50 story plus office buildings, which was a highlight of my career.

I was in my 20s managing these buildings and and then I went to Austin was more of a director role there. So Office Retail reported to me, I reported up to a managing director, but I was one of the associate directors there, then went back to Houston. So I did like sort of that, let’s say military type way, but sort of like I was able to go different places for promotion. I was able I treated sort of like a duty station in a way, like, hey, I can go here, grow my experience, grow a portfolio. And, and they took care of me like I always had good leadership. 

 Part of the process with work, CBRE and this is any company, even in my company, you have policies and procedures. You want to have systems and processes in place no matter what size of company you’re in. So for me, going into the corporate world, I had to learn how they cook their hamburgers. Do you know, like, the way they do their systems, right? McDonald’s or whatever? 

 Yeah. Well, that entrepreneurial spirit sort of dies because you’re following SOP the procedures. Well, it wasn’t until I went back for my MBA that I’m like, oh dang, I have this entrepreneurial I did. I mean, I had this huge entrepreneurial passion early in life. And so it rejuvenated me through my MBA program. 

 And that’s when I started my MBA, was creating CREI Partners and doing the real estate investment aspect. And so I would say the stress is different. You know, with the W-2. You’re you’re you’re going to have different stresses that are not really related on cash flow because you depend on your employer to pay you every two weeks. So I wasn’t really stressing about my pay every two weeks, but I was stressed as when properties were selling or things were happening like, hey, does this mean I sell a job? 

 Or do I need to look at another, you company.

Mat Zalk 07:53

Yeah.

Wayne Courreges III 07:54

So on on the entrepreneurial side, it’s a different. Now I’ve got multiple team members. I’m feeding myself and multiple people. And so I’ve got to be more in tuned and thoughtful about, you know, future properties we purchase. You know, how does it look like?

You know, not only from an investment side but also a cashflow side. So it’s just a different way of looking at things.

Mat Zalk 08:19

Is there a way to encourage entrepreneurship within your organization? I mean, I get it. You want you want SOPs because you don’t want people running rogue and making decisions. But essentially what you’re trying to do is say to a colleague, an employee, make the decision that I would make when I’m not here. I mean, that’s what a standard.

That’s what a procedure is, right? I mean, if it was just you and an organization, you wouldn’t need procedures because you would do it right every time because you’re the you’re the judge of the right. So what you’re trying to do is get them to make your decision. I really hesitate that I really I. Sorry. 

 I really struggle with that. And and in our businesses like I want people to make the right decision. But God, I do not want to make a process and a procedure for everything because it just kills. First of all, it kills creativity. And outside of the box thinking and a whole like there’s lots of solutions that don’t fit in an SOP, but they’re the right solution for that moment. 

 And then when you give people, you know, bullet points of how to how to proceed, they just stop questioning whether this is the right way. And, you know, you put something on paper in 2020, you don’t know if it’s the right thing to do in 2025. What’s the right, what’s what? What are your thoughts about that?

Wayne Courreges III 09:26

I think it’s a blend. It depends on where you sit. Are you are the property management side. Are you on the ownership side. So for me on the ownership side, you know we are definitely very entrepreneurial.

Every property we buy is its own business. So when we underwrite a deal we look at it from a revenue expense side there. There is grey area in how we interpret and how we can run a business plan. But from an accountant, like if you’re on the accounting side, you need to follow policies and procedures like there are rules, GAAP rules, etc. you need to follow. Yeah. 

 And and then we we always as an owner, you know majority of our properties are managed by third party management companies. So you know the reporting certainly.

Mat Zalk 10:06

Want them to have procedures.

Wayne Courreges III 10:07

Right. Well you would because you know, hey if a tenant doesn’t pay on the first of the month. Yeah, you know, there’s an eviction process, there’s a notice eviction, there’s late fees. You know, when I when I tour a property, you know, I don’t want to see a bunch of, you know, barbecue grills on the patios, etc., like, you know, there’s, there’s there’s got to be procedures. Yeah.

Because there’s consistency. And I even will say like we one of our properties that we have under contract right now, I toured that property.

Mat Zalk 10:36

To sell or to buy.

Wayne Courreges III 10:37

To buy. Yeah. Under contract to buy that. But that property is immaculate. I open up a closet, their maintenance closet.

I mean, it’s organized, clean. I’m like, when we when we close on this deal, which we’ll close in September. number like this is the new standard. This is what we get all the property management from other, you know, like, hey, let’s come up with this type of standard because, you know, it provides that consistency throughout. Now from an entrepreneurial standpoint, I think from a property management side or operations, giving them latitude on customer service and the ability to have some type of hospitality. 

 Yeah, mindset is important. So when you look at like the Ritz, Carlton’s and these, you know, other high end hotels, the staff, you know, behind the desk or are the, you know, housekeeping etc., they’re trained through customer service trainings to provide an incredible service and experience. And I think in real estate, people forget about the experience. I go to a lot of these conferences. No one’s really talking about hospitality or experience or in a multifamily conference. 

 Like it’s just so I’m like, okay, well, that will differentiate us because that helps our retention, that helps, you know, bring in, you know, more value with higher occupancy and etc.. So it just depends on where you are in the capital stack. I mean, our company too is small and nimble, but when you’re a massive 150 fortune 150 company, there’s a lot of.

Mat Zalk 12:08

Yeah, you have a lot.

Wayne Courreges III 12:08

Of out there that can do some bad stuff, and then you’re in lawsuits and stuff. So you’ve got to be just depends on what you’re the size and what you’re actually doing.

Mat Zalk 12:17

Yeah. So 80% of your portfolio is 100 to 150 units in growth markets. Yeah. A lot of our clients like they’ve historically loved single family residential units. They you know, it be common for somebody to say, well, people always need a roof over their head and, you know, they like they like residential.

You’re in that category already. Why would you encourage somebody to jump from a single family portfolio into a a multifamily portfolio, whether they’re going to buy the average person is not going to buy 150 units on their own, but whether they buy a multifamily on their own or or jump in as a limited partner in in one of these deals.

Wayne Courreges III 13:01

I think I started in single family when I was in the Marine Corps. I bought my first rental when I was stationed in 29 palms. I was 19, and you know, when the property is leased with good residents, life is good. You get that check every month. Maybe you have a third party management company you’re paying, but it’s it’s when the property gets destroyed or when that person leaves and then it takes three months to to release.

And so that’s negative. You know, you don’t have that cash flow. Yeah. HVAC goes out even if you have a home warranty. Those home warranty companies, the guy in the white van not marked showing up. 

 You know, it’s sketchy. They don’t do a good job. And then you always have. It’s like, yeah, just buy a warranty, you know, plan. And it’s like, no, I’m just. 

 And I’ve done it time and time again. You know, when I buy my personal residence and I have them over, like, God, why did I get the guy that has to drive two hours, you know, from his, like, there’s a reason why he’s he’s.

Mat Zalk 14:00

He’s accepting.

Wayne Courreges III 14:02

The.

Mat Zalk 14:02

Work.

Wayne Courreges III 14:02

Yeah. Yeah. For, you know, $100, you know, deductible or whatever. So. So those that are in single family, like being in real estate is fantastic.

I think it’s it’s good. But what people fail to realize is just the amount of work and really the profit margins in single family, I just didn’t see it being there and the amount of work. Yeah. So think about roofs instead of units. So if those listening and you may have like ten homes I’m just throwing a number. 

 I have no idea. Say ten homes. Well that’s ten roofs. Well I can have 40 homes or 30 homes and one building with one roof.

Mat Zalk 14:45

Yeah.

Wayne Courreges III 14:46

And multiple. So maybe 3 or 4 or so, you know, five times that by four buildings at 38 units each. That’s 120 units. So I can have four, four roofs at 120 units. I’m just throwing numbers out versus like ten roofs for 10 or 120, you know.

So it’s like different roofs, different hvacs different, you know, plumbing systems, water heaters. I got one boiler servicing 150 units. If that boiler goes down. Well, I’ve got a lot of cash flow to cover that expense because I got a lot of units. Look at the break even occupancy to like, you know, pay your debt, you know, and this this this is me speaking more for like an active investor. 

 When I say active, those who are going to source fine deals, operate deals, you know, they’re finding debt potentially hopefully that will have like a a strong cash flow property so that they’re, you know, maybe a 75% break. Even so, 75% of the property has to be occupied to break even. So 25% of the property, in essence, could be vacant and I can still pay my bills and my mortgage. Yeah. So I would say the risk standpoint now, I think what I get a lot of my investors from Mat is actually they started with single family. 

 They absolutely hate dealing with tenants. They hate dealing with toilets and they hate dealing with termites. You know. And it’s just an example. Just the headaches the 2 a.m. calls whatever. 

 Just stupidity. So then they start like okay, well there’s an easier way. And so syndication. You mentioned syndication, but I think some people don’t know what syndication is. Sure. 

 So just the basics of it. It’s pretty much pulling your money, other people’s money together to buy a property or buy an investment or a baseball club. It could be anything but buying. It’s pulling money together to buy something you couldn’t maybe do on your own or wouldn’t want to do, because you don’t want to have all your money in one basket. So syndication allows you to, you know, pull money, reduce, reduce that exposure. 

 So instead of that one single family home that you now bought, you know, maybe you put 100,000 down. Well, maybe you can go into two multifamily syndications or a retail office syndication, whatever your comfort is. So there’s that diversification as well that I get a lot of single family investors who are like, they bought into the dream, but then they realized, like this dream, another job. And so I’m providing is like not a job. Like you’re still in real estate, but you don’t have to do any work because you.

Mat Zalk 17:20

But also also the joys of syndication are that you’re you’re one of the joys of syndication is that your exposure is limited to the capital outlay that you put in. So you’re not on the debt. Nobody’s ever going to come back to you if the property fails. If it fails you, you’ve lost your money, but you certainly haven’t gone bankrupt from it. Hopefully you’re not you.

Nobody’s coming after you for a personal guarantee on the note and hounding you for the next bunch of years. But that raises a good question when you’re thinking when when one of our investors is thinking about potentially joining a syndication, being a limited partner in a in a deal, what would what do you think they should be looking at in terms of the general partnership? Like what criteria do you think is important to be reviewing for a general partnership before you plunk down 50 or $100,000 in a deal?

Wayne Courreges III 18:09

Yeah. So there’s there’s a lot to that. And definitely we’ll dive into it. I think first and foremost, having some type of relationship with that person or that company prior to the deal coming to you, you know, and that may be joining their email list that may be joining, you know, doing a meetup or whatever. But just seeing like, how they are as a person, because most of us, especially those that are listening to this podcast, because it shows that they’re interested in learning, they’re are sophisticated enough to judge good character and or at least have like the spider senses, like something’s not right.

Like right. And so I would say at first, like, if it just doesn’t seem like a good fit just off a personality or trust, you know, just as basic as that, right? It’s just making sure. Because in essence, like they’re they’re running the property for the next five years while you’re sitting on the passive. So you got to like the person, right? 

 I mean, in essence, that’s step one. Step two is general partners, similar to like when they bring in a bunch. And let’s talk about general partners. Limited partners. So limited partners is where people sit. 

 If they’re passively investing they invest 50,000. They’re limited to that investment and that exposure of that risk. But there’s still owners in that asset. And then you have general partners who are the ones who are signing on the debt run, ones who are found the deal put, you know, put the deposit, earnest deposit, running the business plan. So those are two buckets. 

 So typically the general partners, if they’re buying an asset a say a large 150 unit, they will be multiple team members within that general partnership because not one person could have do it all. Meaning maybe that one person didn’t have the net worth, liquidity, the experience, the desire or the time, etc. to run the asset. So you want to know as a limited partner, those listening who may get into passively investing is like, who really is the decision maker? Because there’s there could be a lot of, you know, dust of like multiple partners, but who’s really that experienced one?

Mat Zalk 20:16

How would you even find that out? I mean, there’s one guy that has balance sheet strength, as you suggest, the liquidity, the net worth. There’s one guy that only knows how to manage property managers and make sure that the asset is performing. But how would you actually get to the the crux of who the real decision maker is in a general partnership?

Wayne Courreges III 20:33

Yeah. So I mean, they should, you know, you should ask, right? They should tell you. But when you sign the private placement memorandum. So mind you, like when you personally invest, you’re buying a security into a business asset, right?

So it’s governed by the Security Exchange Commission. So the SEC you know, we do a private placement memorandum which has a subscription agreements, company operating agreements. Those documents that are signed typically is signed by one person on the general partner. And that person is listed as a manager. That manager is typically the ultimate decision maker. 

 So that’s one way to check and balance if. But they should there shouldn’t. There’s no like it’s not bad if this person is not the decision maker, but they’re part of the general partner. That’s normal. Like that’s just part of teamwork. 

 It’s like the tight end’s not going to be the quarterback because he’s a tight end. Yeah. You need you need your team. Yeah. But so they’re going to be very transparent like hey this person. 

 But another way to you know cross check that is typically you could see who’s signing those operating agreements as a manager. Just one way to look at it.

Mat Zalk 21:39

Yeah. On the on the asset management side. So you guys, if, if anybody wants to check out creipartners.com you’ll see that they are generally targeting. Correct me if I’m wrong. 8 to 10% cash on cash returns with a 15% IRR.

Is that right?

Wayne Courreges III 22:01

Yeah 15% IRR is our minimum. We typically would want to see, you know, 1,820%. But for us to even get excited about a deal we want to see a 15 IRR.

Mat Zalk 22:10

Yeah. But that’s a great I mean a great 8 to 10% cash on cash for a from an LP perspective, great return doubling your money every 7 or 8 years. I mean, that’s a that’s a that’s a solid play. What are you guys doing that’s different. Or how are you managing the asset to create that performance.

Wayne Courreges III 22:30

Yeah. Good question on the returns though. It’s we typically see. And so that when we talk about 8 to 10% on the preferred return. Year one could be 4%, but that other 4% could be accrued.

Right? And so when you look at over a five year period in the exit, we on A2X multiple, we typically would see a 20% average annual return. That’s the cash flow and the exit. So one of the things that I have had to do as a company is ensure we bring in the right talent to execute on the business plan. So the first few years of having my company, like I was the asset manager, I was the investor relations person, I was the you know, and that was okay, typical entrepreneur. 

 Yeah. But and that was okay, man, because I had many years of experience doing that with CBRE. So it wasn’t like this. Oh, I had to learn this. And I was like, I was already doing it, and I was just doing it for my investors and myself, which was good. 

 But once we started building out this portfolio and going back to that hospitality and that experience, for me it was important to hire a full time investor relations person, and also someone who can help coordinate my schedule and time and all. And so that was a critical hire for us. And more so outside my, you know, emails and stuff like that. The bulk of her job is focusing on investor relations. And that investor relations is that experience hospitality as simple as like you invest with us on your birthday, we will text you happy birthday and hope you’re doing well. 

 Like we have a relationship and it’s like so many groups they just you invest and you don’t. You may get that monthly update, but there’s no real relationship long term partnership. Yeah. So that was a strategic hire for me. Is hiring that person who can help guide people through our investor portal and the subscription documents and answer questions. 

 Obviously, I’m there too, and I’m happy to help, but it just provides that extra level of of experience. And then as we started growing a little further, I was like, okay, well now it’s time to hire a senior portfolio manager, which is also another term for an asset manager and not someone who is learning, but someone who’s already been doing it and who can hit the ground running. Day one. Yeah. What I’m saying in all this is that we’ve invested in the company. 

 Like we we’re not just squeezing all the profits and me going to Hawaii and just enjoying a long vacation. It’s like, no, we put it back in the business and we’re growing in a way that supports the actual growth that, you know, we’re we’re going if we buy all these properties and we can’t ask that manage because it’s all on me, then you know, the property is not going to do well. So that’s that’s what we’ll do now. Once they hit about ten properties it’s time to hire another asset manager. So and then as I mentioned, you know everything is third party managed. 

 So they’re not in the weeds of all those things. So that’s how we operate the the annual budget similar to any business that think of all this as businesses. Like each property is a business. We have an annual budget and we check in. That’s our North Star. 

 And every quarter I get a report showing, you know, where we’re at every month we get financial reports. And then I also get daily KPI emails about everything. So I’m tapped into where we are financially, what our occupancy is like, what our delinquencies like, you know, what repair funds, what invoices are outstanding. Like all this is you know what I look at.

Mat Zalk 26:09

But the asset manager would see, I mean, to your point about a boiler for 100 units or whatever, that the boiler is down and you’ve got 100 upset apartment units, we have to make a decision about whether we’re going to repair or replace the boiler, and the asset manager may be involved with the property management company to determine whether this is the first time or fifth time that this boiler has gone down. What’s the age of the boiler and whether we’re going to whether we’ve got the funds right now to actually do the CapEx required to replace it, or rather, just replace it, repair it one more time and see if it holds this time or whatever. That’s the second bid. Third bid. Is that right?

Wayne Courreges III 26:44

So spot on and making the decision. And this is where like HVAC units the easy answer is like we’ll just replace the HVAC units.

Mat Zalk 26:51

Always.

Wayne Courreges III 26:51

Let’s repair it.

Mat Zalk 26:53

Hold on.

Wayne Courreges III 26:53

You know we don’t need to replace it.

Mat Zalk 26:55

So yeah that was an $800 blower motor. I’m not sure we needed a 5000 replace.

Wayne Courreges III 27:00

So having an asset manager questions and pushes back. And honestly having a management company that thinks like that is hard. Yeah, that is so hard. But if you can find, you know, in your property management key renter. But thinking like an owner and finding talent and people to join the team that think like an owner, that’s what separates because I don’t want to be in the weeds in property management.

I’m happy to be strategic asset management with my team and all that, but I will. I will do it If the property management company can’t think like an owner and make the challenge.

Mat Zalk 27:36

I’ll tell you the challenge from the property management side of thinking like an owner. And we obviously we always want to think like an owner, but if we have 1500 owners, there are different types of owners. Some owners are like if the system if the if the dishwasher is more than three years old, I’m not going to mess with repairing it, just replace it. And that’s a logical decision because they’re going to spend $300 to repair it, and they’re going to spend $600 to replace it. I’m not going to mess with the 300 bucks.

Just do it right. And we know for three more years. Yeah. And then the other owners like I don’t care. It could be there’s a possibility that we send out an appliance repair guy, and they only charge us $80 and find something. 

 And there’s a possibility that the appliance repair guy is $300 into it before he even tells us that there’s another $200 left to repair. And we’re like, well, in that situation, if you do, damned if you don’t. It’s so it’s hard from we don’t know.

Wayne Courreges III 28:24

What’s another benefit to being multifamily if you’re doing 200, $300 discussions? Yeah. You know, but that goes with the management agreement and I’m sure, you know, probably have it’s like like for us, anything over $5,000 is a call to us. Yeah. Right now we do check our financials.

So if we’re seeing a bunch of stupid expenses, we’re going to make a decision to change course. But meeting with the. So for us, you know, we have weekly calls on all of our properties. I don’t sit on those. That’s where the senior portfolio manager, he has all those calls typically on Wednesday. 

 And they go through those type of questions, go through if there’s anything major. But yeah, if you’re if you are having that many customers or clients question, you know, $300 charge like that would I would not I could not be in that business. I just.

Mat Zalk 29:17

The challenge is.

Wayne Courreges III 29:18

It’s not even my hourly worth like within a day, like at some point, you know, and and I say that not to be, you know, but everybody listening to this podcast, like your time is valuable. And if you’re stuck in the weeds on on a little bit, you know, it’s.

Mat Zalk 29:35

You had a question. I mean, we have people that say like, well, you know, there’s a repair, it’s $400 to change, you know, two filter grills and add new, add new, you know, filters. And we get a we get a response back from an owner that says, I need three quotes for this. And here’s the Amazon links to the things you know. It can’t be this much.

I’m like, man, it took you a while to draft that email, and there’s no HVAC company that’s going to go out for, you know, $200 to do three hours worth of work all in. It just doesn’t work. Like, I’m sorry. I don’t know how to explain this to you, but HVAC companies don’t make any money on these tiny jobs, and it’s going to cost you. So three bids are going to come in roughly the same because it’s expensive and you’ve wasted now a lot of time on your side. 

 You should probably just go do the work.

Wayne Courreges III 30:18

Go do the work well. And it could. And I’m just thinking out loud here is like the actual cash flow for that property is probably small. I mean, I don’t know, I mean, they paid their debt management fee, whatever else, there may be only 100, $200 profit maybe. Yeah.

So yeah, that 200, $300 I get it. Like I, I can empathize with like, oh I’m not going to make it.

Mat Zalk 30:44

That’s when you have to have a long term perspective. You gotta say, like, I hold this real estate for 20 years and over 20 years, it’s going to triple in value. And some months I’m going to make money and some months I’m not. But every month I’m paying down principal, which is just savings for savings, equity in the property. And it just is what it is.

Wayne Courreges III 31:01

But they think on multi if they start going on the multifamily side you’re not as you’re not 100 $200 you know.

Mat Zalk 31:09

So it sounds to me like you have delegated a significant amount of responsibility to people that you trust in the organization. I’m just curious like what portion of that training do you think came from the military? Did four years, like what was the What leadership lessons you mentioned. Like when CBRE was hiring, they wanted people that had, you know, junior leadership experience and they were able to train them in their vertical or whatever the actual business unit was, but they wanted people that already have the leadership skills. But like, what portion of what you do today or your mindset comes from some of your military experience?

Wayne Courreges III 31:47

I would say from the Marine Corps learning that it could always be worse. Like anytime you’re in a situation where, yeah, it could always be worse. So that just mindset. I mean, there’s so many times where I’m like, oh my gosh, I could always be worse. And it just like just saying that just like flips me back to like, oh, it’s not that bad.

Mat Zalk 32:05

Yeah.

Wayne Courreges III 32:07

So I think that’s good. I think, you know, obviously, I mean, even from my scouting days, like leading teams and, you know, everybody’s got a different want. Not everybody’s motivated by the same thing. So like understanding what like I’ve got a team member who really never takes time off. Like we have a very Good PTO program at our company, and she has no.

But she’s not motivated by the time off. She’s motivated by other things. And so that’s okay. And whereas I have another team member who takes his time, time off. So understanding them as an individual of, you know, what they’re motivated about, what’s their, you know, what their life chapter, you know, what they’re about to get married or whatever. 

 You know, being there. I think you build that culture and that loyalty and that trust pretty fast. Also allowing them to try something. And I don’t like the word fail, but like, maybe they wouldn’t do it the way you would do it or like it wasn’t the right way, like empowering them to doing those things. And that goes back to a little about the entrepreneurship. 

 Like you have to if you’re micromanaging people, you’re not buying back your time. Yeah.

Mat Zalk 33:17

And it’s.

Wayne Courreges III 33:17

Hard. And and every time I make a hire, it’s buying back my time to focus on growing the company. Sure. And there’s a book, you know, Buy Back Your Time or Buy Back Your Time. I think it is.

That I read and we implemented, you know, from our email systems to our meeting, like for me personally. And then I’m in strategic coach. That’s another about that very entrepreneurial coaching and focusing my days. So it’s not just the Marine Corps. It’s continued learning, reading, going to conferences, joining, you know, different groups and just taking like think of it like a toolbox. 

 Like you’re just taking little things here and there, this podcast, you know, taking little things. And over time you’ve got your tool chest to do what you feel is best.

Mat Zalk 34:09

I love that Buy Back Your Time, Dan Martell. I want to read that. Yeah.

Wayne Courreges III 34:12

It’s a great book.

Mat Zalk 34:13

Good good little good little nugget there.

Wayne Courreges III 34:15

And you know Who Not How by Dan Sullivan. Like there’s there’s so many good ones. But the difference with delegation. So don’t expect what you don’t inspect.

So there’s a reason I get a daily KPI report through our system. I always know what our occupancy is, what our collections. We already went through all that. That’s not my job to fix. That’s my portfolio manager. 

 Asset manager? That’s what they’re you know what this job is focused on. But I’m always in tune with what’s going on. I’ll check in with key stakeholders, with my investor relations person, whoever, just to make sure another investors just make sure that they’re getting the service. So when you when you do delegate it off, it doesn’t mean you can’t still check in and make sure you got a good pulse of for sure as well.

Mat Zalk 34:59

So yeah, let’s go back in the memory bank. Maybe not to the to the Boy Scout days, your Eagle Scout days, but to your first deal. Tell us a little bit about your first deal. Maybe some of the. Are you out of that deal by now?

Are you still.

Wayne Courreges III 35:16

We’re still. Yeah, we’re in the deal. We bought it in 2022. That deal called Ivy I’ve and Houston. We.

I did it more of a text blasting system. So how I found it was straight up off market. Did the, you know, find the recorded owner on the appraisal website, went to the secretary of state to find the true owner, went to been verified to to see like all these different numbers and just do blast text messages. Right?

Mat Zalk 35:47

Yeah.

Wayne Courreges III 35:48

I don’t know if it’s legal or not, but anyway, that’s what I did. And so I just texted him. So that’s great. One guy he did, you know, I got several text messages back, but one, we just built a relationship. It took about, you know, almost a year of just going back and forth.

And. Yeah, I bought the property off market from him. We turned it around quite a bit. The property was pretty distressed.

Mat Zalk 36:10

How many units was that?

Wayne Courreges III 36:11

That was 101 units. Cool.

Mat Zalk 36:13

And it was an individual owner that you had been. You finally found the GP.

Wayne Courreges III 36:18

Interesting question. Because it was it was his. Yeah, he was a cardiologist in Los Angeles. He’s retired now. He actually has invested a lot into our deals subsequently.

And when I go to Los Angeles, I’ll have dinner with him. And last time I was with him earlier this year, he was like, I didn’t pay anything in taxes. That’s awesome.

Mat Zalk 36:37

Thank you, thank you.

Wayne Courreges III 36:38

Appreciate the passive income and the depreciation. Yeah. So I’ll do a plug for him on that. But anyway so there’s that. And yeah so at this point you know I would say like where the market cycle is and cap rates, it’s not really for me.

It’s not the time to sell. If we can hold on to the property with the debt we have, you know.

Mat Zalk 36:58

What kind of debt did you put on that.

Wayne Courreges III 37:00

So yeah. So that was a bridge debt. And then we modified that to a fixed rate debt.

Mat Zalk 37:06

Okay. How long was the bridge.

Wayne Courreges III 37:08

So that was a three year bridge loan right. And then we modified it to a fixed rate year two. So we were able to work with the lender to get a fixed rate because bridge debt with interest rates, you know those rates went up. So we work through that process. And, you know, I think with any real estate too, whether it’s single family and multifamily, it’s just rolling with the punches of like things are going to come up and it’s like, don’t put your head, it could be worse.

Don’t put your head on a pillow, get, you know, what is that next step. And maybe it’s you don’t want to look at it from like a mile away. Like, oh man, that’s pretty. That’s far. But it’s like one step or the other. 

 Yeah, but it’s doing good. We’ll eventually sell that property and, you know, part of the cycle. But today’s environment I wouldn’t I wouldn’t sell anything.

Mat Zalk 37:56

What’s the nature. So you’re able to to put permanent financing on it in year two. Yep.

Wayne Courreges III 38:02

That’s 6%. We’ve got a 6% fixed rate interest only on that.

Mat Zalk 38:06

And what was what was the extent of the renovation that you did and how much, how much were you able to kind of bump rents on the back of that.

Wayne Courreges III 38:14

Yeah. So yeah, on that one. So we went in, bought it when all the roofs were leaking, the HVAC were in horrible shape. I mean.

Mat Zalk 38:24

That’s what I would expect from a cardiologist living in LA that owns a 101 year property.

Wayne Courreges III 38:27

I mean, it was, but he had owned it for a long time. And, you know, he just sucked. He cash flowed it. I mean, it was just like sucking money. And he didn’t put any money back.

So that’s what he did. But that’s alright. Different investors do different things. Sure. So but we went in we we did new HVAC, new roofs, new paint, put in the carport. 

 We did carport. We did the carports. Resurfaced the pool. And you know we did a lot of a lot of work to the property. Average rents at that time were about 925. 

 Okay. We bumped that to about 1050. So we saw, you know, $125 bump there. And then for the two bedrooms, if I recall, there were probably a low thousand, like maybe 1025. We got those to like 1300. 

 Right. So that was sort of the peak. Things were going and then the market softened. Right. And so rents in Houston and in many areas, you know, rents have softened. 

 And so, you know, we’ve seen it, you know, decline. And that’s what really pushed us to like have those conversations with the lender of like, hey, let’s, you know, modify this loan, get through it. Yeah. But you know, when you work through that type, you know, you fight your taxes. Luckily insurance has been going down. 

 Repairs and maintenance.

Mat Zalk 39:48

Insurance in Houston has been going down.

Wayne Courreges III 39:50

It has. Yeah. Because it’s all about capacity. It’s about the amount of carriers that are sure willing to take on that risk. Yeah.

So there’s been a little more more supply of of that insurance capacity in the market. So we’ve been seeing some different things going in our favor. We’ve been starting to push rents. I mean we’ve been hovering around 87 to 90% occupancy. So you know, and I’d say that’s, you know, we can push a little further and we will. 

 But when you’re competing with other apartments, it’s just it’s the cycle that we’re in. And so.

Mat Zalk 40:27

You know what part of Houston is that in.

Wayne Courreges III 40:28

That’s in the Galleria submarket.

Mat Zalk 40:30

Oh, wow.

Wayne Courreges III 40:31

Yeah. So it’s a good submarket location property looks amazing. But that was the first one, not the first one. Syndicated. Now I’ve done, you know, single family prior.

And then after that we did our development in Lafayette. And you know that one is going really well with the development. Louisiana I’ve learned just it takes a little longer to get things done.

Mat Zalk 40:57

Like you don’t say.

Wayne Courreges III 41:01

They tell you it’s going to be, you know, this day, just add a couple weeks. So yeah, you know, I’ve learned that, which is fine. Every every little market’s a little different. So but yeah that was the first. But the biggest thing on that one is like a lot of people go where there’s other sharks going after the same meat, right?

And so that’s what spikes these properties. So when a deal goes on the market, we as in myself I do not buy. So brokers come to me before he goes on the market before even offering memorandum really is developed. Yeah. We buy off market. 

 Yeah. And it’s important because if you if you go the what I, what I call blue ocean route. And that’s like finding off market opportunities direct to seller or slash going to broker and building relationships where they come to you when they have an opportunity to the whole, you know, world. Those is where you really make your cash flow when you start buying on market. Like if you have that sign in your lawn or like your, you know, there’s in the commercial world, if there’s an offering memorandum to me, you’re just the highest bidder. 

 Yeah.

Mat Zalk 42:10

And just for for explanation offering offering memorandum is a bunch of beautiful photos of the property as it is. Maybe some renderings of what it could be, some architectural drawings of what it could be if you wanted to go and actually do the work to develop it, that trailing 12 cash flow with some unrealistic expectation of the future, 12 months where insurance costs are going down and the roof replacement is, you know.

Wayne Courreges III 42:33

Taxes are still on the, you know, prior evaluation and evaluation.

Mat Zalk 42:38

And you can come and buy this property and hit a home run. So, yeah, you’re right before all that, before all the beauties going into it, into making the presentation if you can get it off market. Yeah. It’s a beautiful potential opportunity. I want to ask, on the fourth Monday of every month, you do a virtual meetup where people come together and they learn and your primary passion, I mean, you’re obviously an entrepreneur, a business owner, but you’re one of your primary passions.

Is education. Just letting people kind of dive deep into your brain to learn something and hopefully make fewer mistakes than than you have in your career, so that they can avoid some of the pain. Tell us about that. That meet up on the fourth Monday of every month. How does it happen? 

 How does. How does somebody get on your list so they can join that? What what do you discuss?

Wayne Courreges III 43:23

Yeah. So I started this a few years ago. It’s the Texas Multifamily Passive and Active Investors meetup. If someone put in Texas Multifamily meetup, my meetup would probably be one of the first, if not the first. Every month, the fourth Monday of every month, it’s virtual.

So no matter where you are, you know, dial in or, you know, join our email list and we can you’ll get it as a recording. But we bring in other like tax. We bring tax lawyers, talk to Syndications talk to, you know, cost segregation this month I’m talking about what passive investors should know about underwriting because there’s all these different levers within underwriting to make a deal look better than what it really is. And so we’ll pull up one of our deals and we’re like, we’ll go through, you know, Underwriting and like, hey, if I did a cap rate here or cap rate there or rent, you know, just go through it. As far as just asking, it’s not making it up like there’s a black curtain and you don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. 

 Yeah. And so that’s what the, the, the meetup is. And then I have a passive investor coaching program. It’s passiveinvestorcoaching.com and it’s free. It’s over five hours of like small videos to go in and just learn about how to look at a deal, how to analyze. 

 So yeah, the education platform is, for me important because I have spoken to several people who didn’t ask the right questions, didn’t know what they’re doing, and, you know, their investment, you know, got in hot water and you can avoid that just through some education.

Mat Zalk 45:00

Sure. If if I understand that there are levers, you say, you know, I’m buying this thing at a ten cap and I’m going to exit in five years at a five cap versus a six cap. There’s a significant differential in the in the ultimate IRR and exit. Why does a syndicator, though want to paint a rosier picture only to underdeliver in the at the end result? And I guess one answer that I have is because they want to do five deals in the next five years before anybody ever realizes that they’re that they’re underwriting criteria are bad, but there must be other reasons that people want to.

I would think, if anything you want to over you want to over deliver and under promise, said vice versa and say look, I’m going to exit at a six and then ultimately exit at a five because the market conditions are favorable and you look great like a hero. And people’s expectations were were gladly met and exceeded. But why like, why would somebody play with the levers in a way that makes the deal look better? And then under deliver?

Wayne Courreges III 45:56

I think it’s more it it looks flashier so they can raise capital easier. I, I there were so many 2021 2022. It was it was crazy what people were buying real estate for. four.

Mat Zalk 46:11

Yeah.

Wayne Courreges III 46:12

And making these numbers work. And the only way to do it, I guess, is to be really aggressive on some of these levers. And so fortunately for us, like we didn’t do that and we’re not losing our seats or you know, we’re able to like be at the table playing real estate right now because we were conservative. So I’m feel grateful in that discipline and what we did there. But, you know, with cap rates, no one knows where cap rates are going to be in five years.

Like for us, you know, in Houston, San Antonio cap rate could be around six and a half. But if you look at like Costar’s report, you know, cap rates in five years could be, you know, 5.75. You know, that’s so the idea is, is that, you know, as rates decrease, even though we’re tied to the Treasurys, there’s going to be more money and capital being flown into real estate. Sure. Would reduce cap rates. 

 So you know, I think.

Mat Zalk 47:15

Just sounds like short.

Wayne Courreges III 47:16

Term how I get away with it. Mat is I show like a sensitivity analysis because I don’t know exactly what we’re going to be in five years.

Mat Zalk 47:23

So this is what the outcome is.

Wayne Courreges III 47:24

What if what if the cap rates at 6 or 5.7 5 or 7. And so when we do a webinar we present as like okay this is our base case. This is what we feel like it is. But then we have a slide dedicated to a sensitivity analysis of showing other returns. If we don’t get a 3% rent bump, maybe it’s a 2%, you know.

So it shows different, you know, ways. And then it’s up to the investor to be like, okay, I’m comfortable with a 12% IRR versus a 15 that Wayne thinks it’s going to be. But because he’s shown a sensitivity analysis I can get behind a 12 IRR, you know. So that’s where you know it just everybody’s going to have their different opinion on the stuff. So you. 

 But that’s why I really want to do like this When we go back to this, meet up conversations like, you know, this is the rent roll. This is a T 12. Like what is a T 12? You know, it’s the trailing 12 months of income and expenses. So that’s the stuff like I want to share with passive investors so that they can ask those questions and, you know, maybe dig in a little bit more on verifying or validating, like, okay, I feel good about this business plan.

Mat Zalk 48:33

Yeah. Besides, besides last question, shameless plug. Besides thinking like an owner, what are the most important things that a property management company can do to? Bolster your value to investors.

Wayne Courreges III 48:57

Pick up the trash.

Mat Zalk 48:59

And I think like an owner.

Wayne Courreges III 49:00

And I’m not even kidding. I mean, yeah, I’ll go. Okay. I went to a property in San Antonio. I was walking doing a property visit, I see trash, I pick it up.

Yeah. And then I’m going along. Pick it up. I’m like property manager. I won’t say his name. 

 I’m like, if you’re not doing the little stuff, you’re not doing the big stuff. Yeah, right. If you’re over. And so my thing is, is like, especially when an owner’s there, like, take care of the asset, like, if you see trash or whatever and what that is going to do. And I’m being a little goosey on this because it’s like the trash symbolizes the overall picture. 

 Like if you don’t have the attention to detail, take care of the asset when the owner is there, then what are the financials look like? What are the relationships? What are the community events? I mean, for us, I think it’s really hard for a property manager to think like an owner. And this is why I didn’t ever do residential property management. 

 I would have a really hard time because you’re dealing with people’s personal lives. Whereas when I did office and retail, it was very business, you know, it was it was business. It wasn’t personal. It was not your home. Yeah. 

 So it’s that balance of like, okay, you have a fiduciary responsibility to the owner, but then you’re dealing with other people’s stories of why they can’t pay rent or whatever their stuff is going on. And so I do understand, like, it’s hard to take care of your customer or resident and the owner. But ultimately you work for the owner. And if you know, and for me, like we empower our managers to make good decisions as far as taking care of a resident. But it just it’s it’s really hard to find somebody who just as simple as pick up the trash. 

 I mean, yeah, not.

Mat Zalk 50:51

When.

Wayne Courreges III 50:52

You do the accounting and everything else. I don’t want to undermine the whole work, but just then they pick up the trash, take care of the small stuff.

Mat Zalk 50:58

And it’s emblematic of of the big picture. Let’s pick up the trash.

Wayne Courreges III 51:03

Thank you. Yes, that’s what I’m trying to say. I like it.

Mat Zalk 51:06

When Wayne Courreges is the Founder and Lead Sponsor of CREI Partners, which manages over $60 million in commercial real estate assets across Texas, Louisiana and Alabama. He helps busy professionals build generational wealth through passive investments in apartment communities and storage developments. He’s. We’ve already talked about it. He’s a former marine corporal.

He was an Eagle Scout. And Wayne brings over 16 years of experience from a fortune 125 real estate firm and now focuses full time on creating high yield returns while giving back to local communities. Visit his website creipartners.com or dial it back a few minutes and let’s talk about the the fourth Monday of the month meet up that he does. Wayne, thank you so much for being on the show. 

 We really appreciate it.

Wayne Courreges III 51:52

Hey appreciate you Mat.

Outro 51:57

Thanks for listening to The Same Day Podcast. Tune in to a new show each week and be sure to subscribe to get future episodes.