Building Authority and Growing a Business Through Podcast Guesting With Jessica Rhodes

October 15, 2024

In this episode of The Same Day Podcast, host Mat Zalk sits down with Jessica Rhodes, Founder of Interview Connections, to discuss how podcast guesting can grow a business and enhance authority. They explore the power of long-form content, the importance of committing to guesting as a long-term strategy, and how podcast appearances can lead to surprising opportunities like high-ticket sales and partnerships. Jessica also shares advice on leadership, delegation, and scaling a team for sustainable success.

Building Authority and Growing a Business Through Podcast Guesting

Jessica Rhodes is the Founder of Interview Connections, a podcast booking agency that connects entrepreneurs with targeted audiences through guest appearances. Since starting the company in 2013, she and her team have booked over 30,000 interviews for more than 800 clients. Jessica is an expert in podcast guesting, helping business owners build authority, generate leads, and grow their businesses through strategic podcast appearances.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • [3:15] Jessica Rhodes shares her background and the inspiration to start a podcast booking agency
  • [7:58] The early days and challenges at Interview Connections
  • [9:44] What separates a good podcast from a bad one?
  • [11:23] The value of podcasting for business visibility and building trust with a targeted audience
  • [12:46] Jessica shares examples of her clients who gained clients and opportunities through podcast interviews
  • [18:22] Industries that have yet to embrace the potential of podcasting
  • [22:14] The challenges of leading a sales team and the importance of delegating and teaching others
  • [26:13] Jessica’s advice to somebody starting or growing a business
  • [27:42] The importance of staying healthy and finding hobbies that bring joy

In this episode…

Many entrepreneurs struggle to stand out in crowded markets, even with innovative products or services. But what if there was a strategy to build credibility, generate leads, and foster meaningful connections — all through sharing your story?

According to Jessica Rhodes, a pioneer in podcast guesting and expert in leveraging interviews, podcasting is the perfect platform to establish authority and build trust with audiences. She highlights that guest appearances allow entrepreneurs to connect on a deeper level with listeners, who often spend 30-45 minutes engaged with their content. This extended exposure builds rapport and credibility in ways that short-form content simply can’t. Over time, consistent podcast appearances help business owners generate leads, land speaking gigs, and even create unexpected networking opportunities.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Special Mentions

Related Episodes

Quotable Moments

  • “When something is working, don’t break it. Just optimize it.”
  • “Podcasting is not slowing down; it’s continuing to grow.”
  • “I think there’s a lot of industries and business owners that are not leveraging podcasting enough.”
  • “Leading a team and selling are two very different challenges in business growth.”
  • “Podcast interviews are kind of the seed that’s sown that leads to so many other things.”

Action Steps

  1. Implement consistent podcast appearances: Regularly schedule podcast interviews to build momentum and authority in your industry. Consistency ensures a sustained connection with your target audience and instills trust over time.
  2. Leverage networking opportunities: Utilize podcast scheduling and appearances to network with industry leaders and potential clients. Podcasts create an avenue for genuine connections that can translate into business partnerships and referrals.
  3. Prioritize quality over quantity: Focus on delivering valuable, high-quality content over saturating the market with excessive podcast episodes. Quality content resonates with audiences and establishes a strong, credible brand image.
  4. Delegate strategically within your team: Assign tasks to qualified team members while providing guidance and flexibility to innovate. Delegation allows for scalability and efficiency in operations, affording you time for strategic business growth.
  5. Engage in self-care and hobbies: Find balance by nurturing your personal interests and health alongside your business commitments. Personal well-being affects professional performance, making it vital to maintain a harmonious work-life balance.

Sponsor for this episode…

Chris Lile at State Farm Insurance:

This episode is brought to you by Chris Lile at State Farm Insurance.

Chris Lile at State Farm helps you protect your most precious assets and investments, including home and auto.

To learn more about how you can save double digits on all your insurance needs, visit diallile.com or call Chris’ office at 918-878-7771.

Keyrenter Property Management:

This episode is also brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management.

Keyrenter Property Management is a full-service property management company that helps clients buy, renovate, and operate real estate assets.

The team helps clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management.

That’s why, no matter what rental you have — single-family homes, condos, townhomes, or apartments — they can give you the management solutions you need.

To learn more about their services, go to https://keyrenterpmc.com/ or send them an email at [email protected].

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:05

Welcome to The Same Day Podcast where we discuss driving incremental business growth and other topics related to real estate, property management and entrepreneurship. Now to the show at hand.

Mat Zalk 0:20

Mat Zalk, here, I’m the host of The Same Day Podcast where I connect with top business leaders and real estate experts. Recent guests include Max McGuirk, who’s been on a couple of times. He’s a real estate investor focusing on long term buy and holds, as well as contract for deed properties. And Gwenn Aspen of Anequim. Anequim helps business owners improve profitability by hiring remote professionals. Today’s episode is brought to you by Chris Lile State Farm. Chris Lile State Farm helps you protect your most precious assets and investments, whether it’s your home and auto investment rental properties or other valuables, call Chris Lile State Farm for a quick and painless phone call to potentially save double digits on all of your insurance needs. Visit diallile.com or call his office at 918-878-7771, today’s episode is also brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management. At Keyrenter, we are a full service property management company, helping our clients buy, renovate and operate real estate assets. We help our clients build wealth while taking a headache out of property management. We know how hard it is to line up contractors and make readys need to get done. It’s hard to get them done in a reasonable amount of time, but we help our clients by having regular contractors that we work with. They give us a great price. They’re dedicated to our business, and having them with the ability to get renovations done super quickly helps our owners get more money back in their pockets. That’s why, no matter what rentals you have, single family homes, condos, townhomes, apartments, we have the management solutions that you need to go to keyrenterpmc.com or email us at info, at keyrenterpmc.com for help in Tulsa, Oklahoma City, northwest Arkansas, Wichita or St Louis. Today’s guest I’m so excited about. She is a seasoned expert in podcasting. Her name is Jessica Rhodes, and she founded Interview Connections, which is the world’s first and leading podcast booking agency. She founded it in 2013 back when no other agencies like it existed since its founding. Interview Connections has booked over 30,000 podcast interviews for over 800 clients. Jessica is passionate about helping entrepreneurs who feel like the best kept secret grow their business online through genuine human to human connection podcast interviews Jessica and her team have booked have helped their clients generate millions of dollars in sales, sell 1000s of books. and transform countless lives. Jessica Rhodes, welcome to the show. How are you?

Jessica Rhodes 2:47

Hey, Mat. I’m doing great. How are you?

Mat Zalk 2:49

I’m great. It’s good to have you on. I’m excited to have a professional, somebody that knows the biz, understands what’s going on. I wanted to start by asking you deal with a lot of business owners, I presume, a lot of podcasts. What? What inspired you to start Interview Connections when you were young, 2013, and it’s been a long time, 11 years in a biz. Congratulations. Most businesses don’t make it this far, but I want to understand what, what inspired you?

Jessica Rhodes 3:15

Yeah. Thank you so much. I know we just celebrated 11 years in business last month. So exciting milestone. Yeah, I was the young age of 25 when I started the business, and I was a new mom at the time, my son, who’s obviously 11 years old, was just born, and wanted to kind of switch up my life a little bit. I was working at a nonprofit, managing and leading a door to door field campus, so the door to door, like, you know, working till 10 o’clock at night. I was like, No, that’s not gonna work for me when I’m a mom and when I have a baby at home. And my dad is a business owner. He started his own company when I was a teenager. He’s a business coach and had a newsletter marketing company. So I called up my parents, and I was like, I want to be a stay at home mom. Not sure what I’m going to do to bring in income. My husband is a nonprofit lawyer, so, you know, had to bring in a second income to the house. And my dad told me about virtual assistants. So he said, You are like, as a virtual assistant. It’s your own business. You’ve got clients. You can work whatever hours you want. You fill them every month. And he goes, I’ll be your first client. You can be one of my virtual assistants. I was like, sounds great. So I started out as a virtual assistant working in my dad’s business, and he asked me to book him as a guest expert on podcast. So I just went to Yeah. I just went to Google and started looking up business podcasts and sending emails to the podcast host recommending Jim Palmer as a great guest for their show, and that’s what started things. Podcast hosts were like, Wait a second. I’ve never had anyone pitch a guest to me before. Who are you? And I’m like, Oh, I’m a new mom, and this is what I do as a virtual assistant. And the interest started growing, and I was reaching the point where my son was a few months old, he was napping a little bit less. I’m like, how am I going to make more money? Because I can’t just bill for more hours, if I, you know, home. And so my dad helped me really create this vision for making my podcast booking services an agency having packages, where as I became more efficient, I could be more profitable. I’m not just billing per hour, but I’m like, here’s your package of bookings, and then I can figure out behind the scenes how to get it done in less time, hence being more profitable. So that’s how everything got started.

Mat Zalk 5:29

I love that story. You know, we my wife told me at some point that we were gonna have twins. We were like, newly married, I think we were like, I don’t know, three, four months married, and she was like, we’re having twins. And I was like, Oh my God. And I was freaking out. We were young in the business, and my grandmother said every child brings its own blessings, and from that, I mean, your story reminds me of that, because from there, I was forced to hire my first salesperson. I loved sales in the organization, but we hired our first salesperson, and everything exploded once I started giving things up in the business and letting experts do best. And it’s sounds like a similar story. You’re like, I’m a new mom. I’m going to be a new mom. I am a new mom. I need some employment, I need some income, and boom, the opportunity just kind of presents itself. And your dad had a huge role in that, which I love.

Jessica Rhodes 6:14

Yeah, and I love so first of all, I have a twin sister so totally related to that.

Mat Zalk 6:19

It’s so much more common than you’d expect when we’re in the airport. It’s like everyone I hear about all the twins in everybody’s life, but Sorry, I interrupted.

Jessica Rhodes 6:26

Yeah, so I have a twin sister, so that I was like, Oh, that’s so funny. And I also just hired a salesperson. So I’m also in that phase. We’ve had sales teams in the past, but basically spent the last year doing all the sales myself to kind of get clear on what we need and what we want in that role, and just hired somebody who’s doing a great job. So I’m, I’ve kind of back into that, like, rocketship moment of like, okay, things are really going to take off now that I’m not doing because I love sales, like background. I love it. It’s like, if I’m out doing all the sales calls, I can’t help grow the company even more.

Mat Zalk 6:59

So it’s, it’s amazing what you realize when you hire a salesperson, you figure out how many things you were doing wrong as a salesperson, like all the stuff that was falling through the cracks and you weren’t following up like you should. And then you put somebody that’s dedicated in that role, instead of somebody that is like you or like me, that is, you know, doing wears a bunch of different hats, and how things can really propel from there?

Jessica Rhodes 7:21

No, I the 100% so literally, yesterday, he did his first sales call. So he started a few days ago, had him listening to dozens of sales calls the first couple days. And I, of course, I’m like, watching all of them. So I watched the first one, and I was like, oh, shoot, he’s better than I.

Mat Zalk 7:37

It’s both a terrible and an awesome feeling.

Jessica Rhodes 7:39

It’s like, that’s what I wanted. And also I’m like, well, shoot.

Mat Zalk 7:44

Yeah, That’s what I wanted. Now I’m gonna cry. So you interviewed so, so you you scheduled your dad to be on a an expert interview. We on a bunch of podcasts. And how did you then find your next client?

Jessica Rhodes 7:58

Well, my dad referred my next couple of clients to me. So papa Jim really set me up in the beginning, got me a couple clients. But then after the kind of nepotism wore off and I had to get my own clients, I really networked with the podcast host that I was pitching. So John Lee Dumas, if you’re familiar, is huge in podcasting. He is the Founder and host of Entrepreneurs On Fire, which is a daily entrepreneur show. And so he was, he had started maybe a year before me. So, I mean, he was really taking off booking. I was booking a lot of my, you know, booking my clients on his show, and then I just built a relationship with Him. Added value. And I asked him, would you refer people to me like you have clients that would be a great fit for my service. Would you refer? And he was like, yep. And I remember he did an interview, I think it was like a written interview, and they asked him about booking interviews, and he mentioned Interview Connections as a resource. And so my first client that didn’t come from referral was Nathaniel Boyle, who had a travel podcast, and he’s like, he signed up with me and said, Yeah, I heard about you from John Lee Dumas. He mentioned you. And I was like, hey, like, this is real. Now I’m actually getting clients that my dad didn’t tell to work with me.

Mat Zalk 9:15

I love that. I love that he’s got 40, almost 4500 episodes, and 173 million listeners, pretty crazy. Tell me. I was just looking and I saw that there are 381,000 active podcasts and 2.5 million inactive podcasts. There have been a total of like 3 million podcasts. What separates a good podcast from a bad podcast in your professional opinion?

Jessica Rhodes 9:44

Well, there’s so many different ways that I could take that answer, because I think it all depends on what somebody’s goal is. So we can take the obvious, like, oh, a good podcast as a bigger audience, probably because of other factors, but there’s a lot of great, successful. Podcasts that have very small audiences because of how targeted and niche their content is. And that’s the thing about that’s what makes podcasts great, is because of how niche and specific the topics are. That’s why people like them. Is because they’re like, Wow, this is so specifically made for me, which tends to kind of attract a smaller audience. But I think there’s some basic things that go into it. A good podcast has good audio quality. People are listening to this in their their AirPods, like it’s something that they feel like they’re a fly on the wall. Bad Air bad air quality.

Mat Zalk 10:29

Bad air quality is terrible. It can kill.

Jessica Rhodes 10:33

Bad sound quality. I am out. I can suffer through a little bit. But if, like, the volume met, like, if the guest is a lot louder than the host, or vice versa, like it is difficult to listen to, and I hope that is not the case with this show, but let Jesus.

Mat Zalk 10:47

We’re gonna we’re gonna pray. That’s all we can do.

Jessica Rhodes 10:51

So yeah, good sound quality is a must, and a good conversation like for an interview based show, having a good rapport between the guest and the host is great, because I did not coin this term, but I like the term edutainment. Yeah, you know, you are getting educated, but it’s also entertaining. Like, I don’t want to be bored learning about something.

Mat Zalk 11:09

So for our business owners that are listening to this show, what should they know about, about Interview Connections, about listening? What? What? What should they be thinking about as they hear more learn more about podcasting. What can they gain from it?

Jessica Rhodes 11:23

Yeah, so number one, podcasting is a way that you can gain visibility to a targeted audience and really educate and build trust with people who don’t yet know who you are. And so a lot of the obvious ways that we’re marketing our business online is through like social media and content and strategies that get you attention from people in a very short amount of time, like they see one of your videos for 20 seconds, maybe or two seconds, if they’re swiping right through, or they read a post that you did, and that’s the minute of their time. But when they hear you on a podcast, they’re spending 30 minutes with you. You know they’re spending a good amount of time. They’re hearing you talk. They’re hearing your story, and so you have kind of those 16 touch points all happening with one piece of content, and you can really build up your authority online, because the more you’re appearing on podcasts, the more credible you look and you are, because you’re out there educating the market and not just promoting your service, right?

Mat Zalk 12:20

So I would suspect that if you are doing all those things, if you’re on podcasts, if you’re educating your audience, you may have had a couple of success stories. How do what are some examples of of success stories that you’ve just heard in the by and by, I presume that not everybody’s coming back to you and saying, I booked a guest on Interview Connections, and I made a million dollars or I did this, but what are some examples of awesome success stories that you’ve heard come back to you over the years?

Jessica Rhodes 12:46

Yeah, so some of my favorite ones are the ones that kind of surprised me, and they’re like, What like the ones that I didn’t really expect would happen. So one of our clients shared with me that. So her and her husband are, you know, business partners. They’re both entrepreneurs, so they’re both getting booked, and she was helping to schedule. Helping to schedule one of his interviews, and in the scheduling conversation, the host realized that her service was perfect for her, and so the host signed up for her $20,000 coaching program while scheduling her husband’s podcast interview. So I’m like, the interview hasn’t even happened yet, and the networking that’s happening between the host and the guests are already leading to sales. So stuff that happens outside of the actual interview is my favorite. Similarly to that, one of our clients posted about being booked on a podcast, and somebody on following her on social media saw that and was like, Hey, I saw that. You’re getting booked on podcasts. I’m actually looking for a speaker for my retreat. Hired her to come speak at a retreat. She got a bunch of clients there, get all started with the podcast interview, but led to a completely different speaking opportunity in which she got clients. So these podcast interviews are kind of the, you know, a seed that’s kind of so root, yeah, it’s the catalyst that then leads to so many other things. And then, of course, there’s success stories like just straight up listeners, like you get consistent leads. Who hear you on podcast, reach out, book a call, host becoming clients. It’s yeah, those are all my, my favorite success stories.

Mat Zalk 14:07

know, as as the real estate industry has generally, I can’t say it You slowed down. We had obviously crazy times during covid, but there have been fewer and fewer opportunities that make sense in the single family residential space that we play in. I’ve interviewed a number of people in other areas of real estate and land sales, in self storage and syndications, and we’ve now put money as limited partners with a bunch of guests that we’ve interviewed, which is crazy, but you build rapport, you talk to them, you understand their story, you see why they’re actually credible as guests on your show. And now I’m I’m putting money with them. I’ve got friends that are putting money with them. So, yeah, it’s, it’s amazing what a little bit of connection and networking can do. And you can’t do that in your hometown, necessarily. You can. You can tap out your own network, and you can keep building but over time, you want to reach out to people in other cities, and you want to see what the real estate market is doing in our. Case in Colorado or in the bay area or whatever. And you get, you get exposed to more stuff, which is awesome.

Jessica Rhodes 15:06

Yeah, I, I love real estate for podcasts, like a lot of our most successful clients are real estate in the real estate industry. Specifically, you know, investors, people coaching people how to invest in real estate. Jack and Michelle Bosch, the Founders of Orbit Investments. So they teach people how to flip land and invest in land, and they also have commercial syndication deals, and they attribute millions of dollars to podcast guesting. They just have it down to such a science where they go get interviewed on a show, they ask the host if they want to be an affiliate partner for their course. And so over the years, they’ve been working with us since like, 2019 they’ll meet people at their, you know, events that’s like, Oh, I heard you on podcast. It just really spreads like wildfire. So there’s one thing I could say to the listeners, is commit to it long term. It’s not a strategy where you just do a couple episodes and then, you know, it pays off over time. Like you want to be consistently showing up on podcasts every single month, year after year, and that’s where you really build the momentum and the authority so that people keep hearing you. Come up by my client, Paul Ross told me once that he had a listener set up a Google alert for his name, so that every time he appeared as a guest on a podcast, he would go listen to it like that really shows you why it’s good to be showing up consistently, because there are people that will just follow your appearances and listen to them like it’s a podcast.

Mat Zalk 16:18

It can be kind of a strange experience when you meet somebody and they tell you, meet somebody that you’ve never met before, and they tell you, I’ve listened to a bunch of your shows. That’s an interesting experience. What’d you listen to? Would you like?

Jessica Rhodes 16:31

Yeah, I’ve been to conferences where we produced our podcast for nine years. And I was like, I went to conferences, and people would just like, come up and start talking to me, like, like they knew me, because they did, but they were in my audience, so I didn’t know them very well, and they’re just driving jumping right into stuff that I’ve said. And I’m like, Okay, this is a weird feeling of like, this is what celebrities feel like, where people know so much about them, but they’re like, I don’t know you. It’s, it’s bizarre.

Mat Zalk 16:56

Yeah, I have to go back into my memory bank and see what I’ve said, so that I know how to continue this. You’re, you’re deeper than I would be on a normal first conversation. Yeah, on the on the business ownership side, which a lot of our a lot of our listeners will be business owners. And we’ve talked in the past to people that like Anequin, Gwenn Aspen, who who provides a service, has a service that provides remote team members or remote professionals, and we’ve used them in property management for a long time, because a ton of what we do is administratively cumbersome, and we have remote team members that are able to provide high level quality service, super intelligent people. They form an integral part of our of our business, but they’re based in Mexico or Venezuela or El Salvador or Pakistan or wherever, and we’ve leveraged that for a long time, but other business owners, it seems to me, have not caught on to this trend. Your dad was talking about remote team members, and they were based in the US, and there’s an arbitrage play where you have lower cost labor in other places. Great job for them. They’re working from home. They can take care of their kids and have flexibility, etc, and it’s a benefit, obviously, to the company. So we were talking about was, why are other companies not, not, not doing this remote, professional thing in their industries? Where are some industries? What are some industries that, similarly, are not taking advantage of podcasting enough? They’re not there. They just don’t get it. Are there any blind spots in the world.

Jessica Rhodes 18:22

I think there’s a, I think there’s a lot of industries and business owners that are not leveraging it, you know, leveraging podcasting enough. I don’t know, based on, you know, per industry, which ones aren’t leveraging it enough, I would say that the ones that are leveraging it probably business coaches are the most in on podcasting like coaches are because it’s coaching is all about networking. It’s having people trust you, and that’s why they hire you to coach them. So coaches are probably the most prevalent in the kind of podcast interview space, but so many industries are just catching up to it. And it’s funny because they’ll say to me, oh, like, is podcasting just is the bubble that’s gonna burst? And I’m like, I am 11 years into booking podcast interviews, and it’s not slowing down, it’s continuing to grow. And what we’re seeing is that other like, within an industry, people are noticing, oh, wait, my competitors are starting to use podcasts. And they’re like, oh, shoot, I need to start doing this, because I’m going to fall behind. So whatever industry you’re in, like, if you are not leveraging podcasts, you are not going to be as relevant, because the market consumers, they want to be able to hear you. They want to be able to really be educated by you in a long form, in long form content. So I think it’s really, really important for whatever industry you’re in to be leveraging podcasts because it is the strategy it’s going to be most relevant. Just look at the money that’s coming into this industry. I mean, one of my favorite podcasts, armchair expert, was acquired by wondery for $80 million $80 million they paid for a show so money doesn’t lie. My dad always taught me, you follow the money. Obviously, these companies are not. Going to be putting millions and millions and millions of dollars into podcasts if they thought that it wasn’t going to pay off in the long run. So, yeah.

Mat Zalk 20:08

I’m always actually amazed when I do a Google search for something I’m trying to understand. I don’t know. Let’s take something esoteric. You know why HVAC systems don’t last as long today as they did 30 years ago, and you get this, this long form content that really explains in detail what’s going on. And you can, again, pop it in your in your ears with air pods. You can, you can listen to it in the car and really understand something in such great depth. I guess they all you can. You can also do it via a long form article, but sometimes you want to go deep on something that’s fairly esoteric. And there’s always a couple of podcasts that pop up, and it’s really that pop up, and it’s really, you know, a great benefit to the knowledge economy, yeah.

Jessica Rhodes 20:47

And also, everyone learns differently. Like, I like to listen to information, whether it’s through, you know, a video or a podcast. And most podcasts are video now anyway, so kind of one in the same, but I want to hear the information. And case in point, I’m a huge Alex Hormozi fan. I listened to a lot of his podcasts. I learned a ton from him. He’s basically mapped out the sales training plan I have for this new rep just following one of his videos like that. See, I unsubscribe from his emails. I don’t like reading emails. I don’t like reading what he writes. I like hearing him talk. Yeah, and so just statistically speaking, if you’re only doing written content, you are not going to be speaking to a percentage of your potential audience, because there’s just people that it doesn’t matter how good you write like they’re not going to be reading your emails if they don’t prefer written content.

Mat Zalk 21:33

Alex Hormozi is fun business building. Yeah, I something like that.

Jessica Rhodes 21:40

Do you know who Alex Hormozi is?

Mat Zalk 21:42

No.

Jessica Rhodes 21:43

Oh, he’s big. So he came from the gym industry. He sold his company called Gym Launch for $47 million so he has a company called acquisition.com Oh, got it. So he invests in in businesses. And so I’m kind of his target market, because he invests in businesses that are, like, one to $3 million in revenue, and then he scales them up. So I love his content, because it’s very niche, specific to this, you know, to the kind of size business that I have.

Mat Zalk 22:08

What’s what’s been the hardest part about owning and operating, the Interview Connections?

Jessica Rhodes 22:14

Learning how to be a leader to a team is so hard.

Mat Zalk 22:16

Oh my god. And what have you and what have you learned? How have you grown?

Jessica Rhodes 22:21

Oh, my goodness. Well, it’s, I’ve, you know, when you start a business, you start doing the thing, like I started booking interviews, and then I learned I had to bring in virtual assistants, and then I had to hire employees. And so learning how to hire people, and then my biggest Leadership Challenge is growing a sales team. I fell on my face a lot over the first couple of years of having a sales team. Took like, the last year, did not have a sales team, and now hired again, and it’s just the greatest leadership challenge to like, for a lot of people, including myself, it’s so much easier. It’s hard for me to teach somebody how to do something that just comes naturally to me. Yeah, like, I’m just naturally good at sales. I’ve learned a lot. I still, you know, go through trainings and stuff like that, but I’ve just been naturally a good salesperson my whole life. And so it’s hard for me to teach somebody how to do something that is just second nature to me. So learning how to lead, learning how to delegate and let go. I just listened to a great book called The motive, and it’s a very short parable about just this balance of like, being a leader and being a doer. And I’m just so much more of the doer. I would just rather get in there and like, do the things.

Mat Zalk 23:23

It’s so much easier just to do it, rather than to show somebody else how to do it and teach those intangible qualities that make the doing successful.

Jessica Rhodes 23:33

Exactly. It’s so much easier in the short term, but then over time, you’re like, I’m gonna grow so much faster if I can slow down, teach somebody, delegate, lead them, will will scale so much faster with the team. But that is absolutely the hardest thing, because I can speak on podcasts, I can market, I can sell, I can do all that. But then when you bring a team in the mix, and you’ve got to help other people take over this stuff, you’re like, that’s where I’ve been humbled the most.

Mat Zalk 24:01

It’s I find it really difficult to to share or communicate the logic of thought, like, Why did I write this email this way in one instance and not write it that way in another? And it’s so some of it is so nuanced, but capturing that in whatever format to transfer to other people in the organization is critical and yet, very, very, very difficult.

Jessica Rhodes 24:26

Yeah, and then learning that they might just do it better, they might change the way you did it. And they’re like, this is better. And you’re like, Oh, that is better, yeah, yeah.

Mat Zalk 24:36

But that’s great. I mean, our, one of our core values is improve it. So I’m like, yeah, that is, you improved it? Fantastic. Yeah, core value fit.

Jessica Rhodes 24:44

That’s definitely where we’re at with the booking team. Like, I’m years past doing any pitching and booking work. Like our booking team is so solid. They do things. Like, we’re so far past how I did things in the beginning, and that’s great. I have no attachment to that, but now I’m in the phase of growing the sales. Team where I’m like, okay, like, you’re doing things differently than me, but actually think it worked better your way. So finding that balance and that nuance to to lead, but also let, like, I’m in this leadership program called Alpha to Alpha, and it’s like, how to lead other leaders. Because it’s not just, Hey, do it my way and, like micromanaging everything they do. So they do it the same way, but like seeing the value that they bring, the expertise that they bring. It’s, it’s quite a challenge.

Mat Zalk 25:28

Yeah. I mean, I know that challenge from Entrepreneurs Organization and leading a team of other entrepreneurs on the board, which is a volunteer board for a bunch of successful business people, and now asking them to do things. It’s, I mean, herding cats is not the right expression, because these people that are highly motivated and are intrinsically driven to deliver results, but still, it’s, I mean, leading leaders is, is a hard, harder skill than leading people that you are paying a salary to, at some level, they’ve got to do it. There’s a, there’s a pretty significant stick there, whereas leading leaders, you know, sometimes that stick is not the right motivation. Exactly. Yeah, what? What advice would you give to somebody starting a business or growing a business like you have, maybe your younger self? Where would you start?

Jessica Rhodes 26:13

It’s a good question. I always struggle with a question like this, because even though I’m like, okay, everything that I did, even if it was kind of a humble pie moment, it still got me to where I am. But I would say the advice I would give is, when something is working, don’t break it, just optimize it. Make it work better. Like one of my biggest, you know, failures, biggest learns, so to speak, was we were having record breaking years. Profit was great, revenue was great, like everything was growing, but the way we were doing it was very taxing. It was I was burning out. I was tired. It was like we weren’t doing it in the most efficient way, but the results were excellent. And so instead of just optimizing and seeing how can we do this more efficiently, I just said, Let’s just change it all and do it a different way, and actually totally didn’t work. Totally messed up our profit, our cash flow, everything. It took us such a long time to get back to, you know, the strategy that worked, and so optimize, don’t break it down.

Mat Zalk 27:15

Yeah, yeah, that’s really interesting. I guess we have a tendency to just try to flip things on their heads, and it doesn’t always make sense to do that. I’m trying to think of examples where we’ve done that in the past. And, yeah, optimize, optimize. Don’t break it. I love it. Yeah, let’s switch. Let’s switch to a little bit of personal stuff. What are you doing when you’re not working? Interview Connections must take a significant amount of time. But what do you what are your hobbies? What do you love to do when you’re not when you’re not at the office?

Jessica Rhodes 27:42

Yeah, well, I have two kids, so I have a nine year old and an 11 year old. So their activities, they’re both competitive athletes, and they’re at the age now where, even though they’re nine and 11, they’re young. Their sports are serious, like they have required practices, they have private lessons, so they’re I mean, my daughter’s at the cheer gym three days a week. My son has soccer Monday through Friday. So there’s a lot of just kids activities, going to their stuff. I like to work out. So I have a personal trainer. So every week I have a personal training session, which I am really enjoying, like lifting weights and learning how to do strength training. So I find just, I because I was not an athlete, I was a theater kid. So I’m like, finding out how to how to stay healthy and to feel strong through that. So I’ve really been enjoying that. And then I, you know, just relaxing self care. I’ve been working to, like, get massages more regularly. I’m going to a chiropractor tomorrow to get an adjustment, because that feels really good. So that’s I’ve also, yeah, my last little fun fact, I’ve come to learn, I’ve learned to love the game Settlers of Catan, which is a board game. Yeah, I know settlers very well. I did not like board games for the longest time, but my husband and my kids love them, so I just have realized, like, I gotta learn to like it if I’m gonna spend, oh yeah. Now I’m like,

Mat Zalk 29:08

Do you have expansion packs and stuff?

Jessica Rhodes 29:12

I don’t think we have the expansion packs, but, like, I’ve just it took me probably a solid 1010, times to play this game where I’m like, now I understand the strategy, yeah? And I find it so fun, yeah.

Mat Zalk 29:23

You got to know where to put the settlements. You gotta know where to put the first ones.

Jessica Rhodes 29:27

I really messed myself up the last time. I put them right next to each other, and then I got totally gridlocked. And I’m like, I’m just gonna get the one of the cards. I’m just going for a new one.

Mat Zalk 29:36

Yeah. What are they called? Oh, my God, the.

Jessica Rhodes 29:39

Discovery card, a development card.

Mat Zalk 29:41

Yeah, development card. There you go. There you go. I It doesn’t matter how many times I play, I’m still looking at my little card to go, Okay, I need one sheep and one wheat and one to build something. One thing I’ve learned from friends is like, you’ve got to be friendly capital. I mean, you’ve got to there’s, there are favors that are paid in favors that are received, and you got to make sure you’re not. Not isolating yourself, making enemies.

Jessica Rhodes 30:02

Totally my daughter and I will, like, get into an alliance against my husband and but then when, when I start winning, she’s just like, now I’m not trading with you anymore.

Mat Zalk 30:09

Yeah, exactly, exactly. That’s fun. My dad’s a big board game guy too, and he has been probably for the last 15 years. And they get into some really, I mean, Settlers is the starting point, I think what they call European board games that are these kind of strategic ones, but essentially, there’s too much that is based on where your initial placement of your settlements are that dictates the outcome of the game. And so they like real board gamers. And my dad, who’s not as nerdy as I’m describing him right now, he prefers the games that are less the outcomes are less based on, like, the first luck of whether you roll the high number and get to place your position, first or second or third. They get, like, really into, I think on Thursdays, he goes in place for a few hours, and he loves it. Has a great time. So good. Jessica, it’s been great chatting with you. I’m I’m excited that we did this, and I want to let everybody have an opportunity to find out more about Interview Connections. If they want to, where do they reach you? Where do they reach your team?

Jessica Rhodes 31:09

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would love for folks to connect with me on LinkedIn. Jessica Rhodes, Rhodes, send me a connection request and add a note to tell me you heard me on this podcast. So that would be how to connect with me. And then, if you want to learn more about the company, what we company, what we do booking you on podcast that at interviewconnections.com.

Mat Zalk 31:26

I love it. Jessica Rhodes founded Interview Connections, the world’s first and leading podcast booking agency in 2013, 11 years ago. And again, congratulations on celebrating your 11th anniversary. It was back when no other agencies like it existed. Since its founding, Interview Connections has booked over 30,000 podcast interviews for over 800 clients. That is impressive. Jessica is passionate about helping entrepreneurs who feel like the best kept secret grow their business online through genuine human to human connection podcast interviews Jessica and her team have booked, have helped their clients generate millions of dollars in sales, sell thousands of books, and transform countless lives. Jessica, thank you for being on the show. We’ve had a great time chatting with you.

Jessica Rhodes 32:04

Thanks, Mat.

Mat Zalk 32:06

See ya.

Outro 32:10

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