In this episode of The Same Day Podcast, host Yoni Schmidt sits down with Meagan McCollum, Director of the Center for Real Estate Studies at the University of Tulsa, to discuss how academia and industry can work together to tackle real estate’s biggest challenges. They explore Tulsa’s evolving market, the impact of public policy on housing, and how students gain hands-on experience. Meagan also shares insights on the future of real estate education.
Bridging Academia and Real-World Real Estate Challenges With Meagan McCollum
Meagan McCollum is the Director of the Center for Real Estate Studies at the University of Tulsa, a program focused on research, education, and industry engagement in real estate. She focuses on real estate finance and market analysis, bringing valuable experience from both academic and industry settings. Before joining the University of Tulsa, she taught at Baruch College in New York City and has conducted research on land use, zoning policies, and housing markets. Meagan also leads initiatives that connect students with real estate professionals.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [02:10] How Meagan McCollum’s career path led her into real estate finance and academics
- [06:08] Insights from research on how natural disasters influence land use and rebuilding efforts
- [11:09] Key real estate trends shaping the market
- [15:30] Strategies for navigating real estate challenges
- [23:02] The connection between public policy, real estate development, and financial markets
- [26:45] How academia can help shape the next generation of real estate professionals
In this episode…
Real estate education often struggles to bridge the gap between academia and industry, leaving students unprepared for real-world challenges. Can we change that by integrating professional engagement, research, and hands-on learning? How do universities play a bigger role in equipping future professionals with the tools to navigate today’s dynamic market?
According to Meagan McCollum, a seasoned expert in real estate finance, fostering collaboration between academia and industry is essential for progress. She highlights that real estate professionals often face market uncertainties, zoning regulations, and financing hurdles, issues that academic research can help solve. By integrating data-driven insights, universities can provide students with practical skills and innovative solutions, making them better prepared for the workforce.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Yonatan Schmidt on LinkedIn
- Mat Zalk on LinkedIn
- Keyrenter Property Management
- Keyrenter Property Management in Tulsa | Oklahoma City | Arkansas
- Keyrenter Property Management email address: [email protected]
- Meagan McCollum on LinkedIn
- The University of Tulsa
- “Exploring New Possibilities in Entrepreneurship” with Chip Gaberino on The Same Day Podcast
- “Revitalizing Communities Through Multi-Concept Restaurant Development” with Elliot Nelson on The Same Day Podcast
- “The Future of Financial Advising: Building Relationships Over Returns” with Morgan Martin on The Same Day Podcast
- “Tax Optimization Strategies for Real Estate Investors With Yaron Pacht” on The Same Day Podcast
- Center for Real Estate Studies at the University of Tulsa
- Tulsa Undergraduate Research Challenge (TURC)
- Dr. Jason M. Walter
- Dr. Cayman Seagraves on LinkedIn
- ICSC LAS VEGAS
Quotable Moments
- “Real estate bridges the gap between tangible and financial assets, making it a uniquely fascinating field.”
- “The principle of real estate is to always find the highest and best use of the land.”
- “Time is money in real estate. Delays in processes translate directly into financial costs.”
- “Those who have deep knowledge and resources find creative solutions in a tough environment.”
- “Focus on your local city, neighborhood — things you can actually impact — rather than losing sleep over what you can’t control.”
Action Steps
- Connect with the professional community: Engaging with industry professionals can provide valuable insights and networking opportunities that are crucial for career advancement in real estate.
- Embrace technology and automation: Implementing online processes and automation can help streamline operations, reduce costs, and minimize errors, especially in areas like permitting and documentation.
- Diversify skill sets: Expanding your skill set beyond your current role allows for greater flexibility and resilience in an ever-changing real estate market.
- Focus on local impact: Concentrating efforts on local communities and projects where you can make a tangible difference can be more rewarding and manageable.
- Explore innovative housing solutions: Getting involved in research or projects that address housing shortages and innovative development strategies can contribute to solving real-world issues.
Sponsor for this episode…
Keyrenter Property Management:
This episode is brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management.
Keyrenter Property Management is a full-service property management company that helps clients buy, renovate, and operate real estate assets.
The team helps clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management.
That’s why, no matter what rental you have — single-family homes, condos, townhomes, or apartments — they can give you the management solutions you need.
To learn more about their services, go to https://keyrenterpmc.com/ or send them an email at [email protected].
Episode Transcript
Intro 00:05
Welcome to The Same Day Podcast, where we discuss driving incremental business growth and other topics related to real estate, property management and entrepreneurship. Now to the show at hand.
Yoni Schmidt 00:20
Hello there. Yoni Schmidt here, hosting today’s episode of The Same Day Podcast, where I connect with top business and real estate leaders. Past guests include Chip Gaberino, local restaurateur entrepreneur Elliot Nelson, the CEO of the Mcnellis Group, Morgan Martin of Merrill Lynch, and Yaron Pacht of tax strategists. Today’s episode is brought to you by Keyrenter Property Management. At Keyrenter Property Management, we are a full service property management company helping our clients buy, renovate and operate real estate assets. We help our clients build wealth while taking the headache out of property management. That is why no matter what rental you have a single family home, a condo, townhouse, apartments. We have the management solutions that you need. Go to keyrenterpmc.com or email us at [email protected]. Today I am so excited and we are thrilled to have Meagan McCollum, Associate Professor of Finance and the Director of the Center for Real Estate Studies at The University of Tulsa. Joining us with a rich background in real estate, finance, sustainability and banking. Meagan is shaping the next generation of industry leaders while tackling some of the most pressing issues in the real estate world today. Her work bridges the gap between academia and real world challenges of the real estate market, and we are excited to dive in and learn from her insights. Meagan, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show. How are you today?
Meagan McCollum 01:49
Thank you. So glad to be here. Doing great.
Yoni Schmidt 01:52
I love it. Thank you. Meagan, let’s hop right in. Can you share a little bit about how you became the Director of The Center for Real Estate Studies at TU. And what inspired your journey into real estate and finance and becoming an educator?
Meagan McCollum 02:10
Sure. So The Center for Real Estate Studies at the University of Tulsa is a new initiative. It’s only in its second year, so we’re still still getting our name out there, getting our programs up and running. But I’ve this is my 10th year as a professor in the real estate space. Previously, I worked at City University of New York, Baruch College. So as a New York City for a few years and came to the University of Tulsa with the idea of essentially reinvigorating real estate education at the university. We had a program in the 80s and 90s that it kind of died off, as different faculty members had left, and I saw a real opportunity to To bring this kind of programming to the students at our university. So just a little bit about my background. I come to things from a really data driven perspective. So my kind of introduction to real estate was as a graduate student in finance. I did some statistical analysis for a time. I was in Alabama, so it was the state of Alabama Realtors, their market trends, housing issues, and was just kind of fascinated by, you know, the intersection between the tangible asset and the financial asset in the real estate market. And so, you know, I kind of pivoted away from just pure finance to being in the real estate finance space, because I just found both sides of that so interesting and went on, got a PhD and decided to stay in the education space because I really loved the opportunities I had to continue learning the opportunities I have to share knowledge and insights and bring together people from academic space and from the practitioner space, and all in service of educating that next generation of leaders.
Yoni Schmidt 04:11
I love that. Yeah. Some of my favorite moments are coming to the program and, you know, being invited by Professor Seagraves and talking to the students about all sorts of things, such as property management, creative financing. The students are so smart and asking, really? You know, poignant questions that are very relevant to today. Before we dive into that, maybe a little bit and talk about the intersection of the tangible and the financial, you know, assets, right. And what you’re seeing maybe in the market today and you’ll share some of your insights. Tell me a little bit about the goals for the center for Real Estate Studies. And how does it serve the The students and the broader real estate community.
Meagan McCollum 04:59
So with our center for Real Estate Studies, we really have three different pillars of what we’re focusing on. We’re focusing on continuing and expanding our engagement with the professional community. We’re expanding and deepening the curriculum for our students so that they have they gain the relevant knowledge and insight to propel them forward in their career. And alongside that, we’re doing research into current real estate issues of the day. And those three things I really think of like three legs of the stool that they all kind of support the same, the same mission of advancing real estate knowledge. And so that’s, you know, we have being in the University of Tulsa, we have kind of a focus on the Oklahoma market and regionally. But, you know, some of the issues that we’re studying and sustainability. What we’re looking at as far as commercial real estate financing their national issues. Even though we we take a little bit more of a local lens sometimes with our with our work.
Yoni Schmidt 06:01
Love that. Yeah. Can you talk to us a little bit about the research that you are currently engaged in?
Meagan McCollum 06:08
Sure. So one of the one of the projects that Dr. Seagraves and I are working on together alongside one of our colleagues from economics, Dr. Jason Walter, is looking at the impact of natural disasters on land use. So, you know, with the California wildfires, with hurricanes, with damaging winds, you know, this is a really salient issue. No matter where you’re located, there’s going to be some kind of climate risk. And your insurance company cares about it. So you should too. So we’re looking we’re taking in this project a lens of, you know, what happens to areas when they have Gone through one of these natural disasters. And essentially now you have land that was previously occupied by something that is now essentially vacant again. And, you know, the principle of real estate of like, you should always use put on the land. What’s the highest and best use of the land? You know, the the further you get away from building something on that land, the further you could drift from that principle. What made sense 50 years ago to put there may no longer make sense, but it’s already there. So, you know, what are you going to do about it? So we look and see that after some of these natural disasters, we actually do see a lot of land use changes. And we see a lot of evolution in what developers are choosing to, to build on these sites. And that has really interesting implications for, you know, what, how industries co-locate next to each other, where, you know, we need to think about, you know, what sorts of zoning code amendments we might need, what impediments that we have in place today that might be and they might be impeding progress. And, you know, just because we have this natural, you know, natural disaster, no one wants that, right? You know, highly damaging. You know, it’s caught, you know, great cost of life and property. But, you know, it does give us this lens to see that, you know, given the opportunity, there is a need for different kinds of development. So what can we do as as a real estate community to help incentivize and and make the path clear for redevelopment activity that is feasible. So that’s kind of our, our, our working thesis in that project, which is, which is still in progress. Another project that I’d like to highlight is one that we do alongside students. So every summer we do a project. It’s called the Tulsa Undergraduate Research Challenge. It’s sponsored by our university, and it’s not just for real estate students. Students across the university work on different projects with professors in their areas of expertise. But Dr. Seagraves and I run a real estate housing focused project. And so we’ve taken, you know, the city of Tulsa somewhat as kind of a test case, a laboratory, and looked at different building permit issuances on the residential and commercial side, different zoning code amendment changes, different tifs, you know, you name it. We have a student group that’s been looking at what’s happening, what’s happened in the past in Tulsa, what, you know, what are changes that are being proposed and how can that serve. And the cities identified? We have a housing shortage over the next ten years. What, you know, can we identify bottlenecks? Can we analyze the data that’s provided by, you know, our city and our community partners to help propose some solutions to this area? So that’s that’s the project that I love working on because it introduces our students to the idea of analytical research as well. And, you know, they always have a hard time with there is no single correct answer. But that’s the real world. You know, you that you know, it’s not just a a test where you either get the answer right or wrong, but presenting them with an open ended problem, giving them the tools to look at it different ways and then, you know, proposing a solution which may not be the solution.
Yoni Schmidt 10:37
Right? Yeah, that is definitely how the real world works. Tell us, I guess a little bit from this, from the second project that you’re working on. What are you noticing in the city of Tulsa, maybe in Oklahoma. Oklahoma City. What are the broader trends that you and your students and as you mentioned, Dr. Seagraves and the Dr. of Economics that you mentioned. What are you noticing? What are the trends and where are we trending towards?
Meagan McCollum 11:09
So the really interesting thing that’s going on, I would say probably in the past 3 to 5 years, is that cities across the US are getting a little bit more creative that you’ve seen broad, sweeping changes in how individual cities approach housing. And, you know, it takes it takes time for all of those changes to filter through to results that you can see. But you have different cities. Experimenting with what does it mean to reduce or eliminate parking requirements? What does it mean to allow an accessory dwelling unit by right within your city limits. You know, what does it mean to have a more streamlined permitting procedure? How how are those things? How do those things actually play out? You know, are there unintended consequences? Are there things that we could do we could go even further with. And so, you know, those are some of the those are some of the issues that we’ve, we’ve looked at in past summers. And we’ll continue to, to, to look this year and beyond. Yeah. Those sort of changes.
Yoni Schmidt 12:25
Yeah. Interesting that you say streamlined permitting process because I was I just had coffee on Sunday with an electrician here in Tulsa, and we were talking about a very large project that we are working on and bidding and bidding on the the permit cost is going to be close to six figures just for just for pulling the permits. And he said, you know, the the permitting at the city is sometimes cumbersome and difficult. And, you know, he wishes it was a lot more streamlined. So have you done any, any work and research on how we might accomplish something like that?
Meagan McCollum 13:08
So that is definitely an active area of inquiry because it’s, you know, even here locally in Tulsa, it’s something that has been evolving, but I would probably say hasn’t been evolving fast enough to meet the demands of our, our community. So, you know, the, the I like to look at what’s the lowest hanging fruit, what’s going to be the easiest things to solve. And, you know, I just want to get paper out of the process. Eliminate points in the process where there is a guy or gal at an office that’s open certain hours that I have to physically go down and file physical paper at. Yeah. All those things, you know, things can get lost, misplaced. You know, timing doesn’t work out. All those. I mean, time is money in finance and especially in real estate. So every day that processes are delayed or you aren’t able to get a clear answer to a question you have about the process, is another day of cost for you, if not actual cost, opportunity cost. And so that, you know, that’s kind of the first thing that’s, you know, in my laser vision of what cities should do is, is do more to automate processes so that you don’t have to rely on kind of 1980s and 90s technology to solve 20, 25 questions.
Yoni Schmidt 14:42
Yeah. Yes. So just like doing things online faster. They don’t accept Amex, so don’t try to pay with an Amex. They do accept visa, but you have to be down there in person. Learn that the hard way. Let’s talk, I guess, about, you know, maybe some of the challenges that you, your students, Doctor Seagraves see. For real estate professionals in the year ahead and how they might, you know, prepare for these hurdles. When you look at 2024, for example. And you talk about real estate agents, right. I think the statistic is that 70 or 80% of real estate agents didn’t even sell one property in 2020 for, you know, lots of moving parts and factors that come into play here. What do you envision for 2025?
Meagan McCollum 15:30
Well, we heard a lot during 2024, survived to 2025. Well we’re here. We we made it this far. But you know, people who were just surviving are probably not going to be able to survive for too much longer. So this is where you start to see kind of. The wheat separate from the chaff. And you see the people who really have cash on hand. Who have deep knowledge and resources and have a diversified portfolio of either. Properties or skills. They’re the ones who are able to find creative solutions in a relatively. Tough environment. I mean, you can’t have this conversation without. Talking about interest rates, right? You know, we’re we’re all you know, we. Hoped that we would be further in, you know, the easing process than we are now. But, you know, the reality is we’re not. And, you know, we may not get back to. The costs that we the rates that we saw a couple years ago, anytime soon or even ever. Like those are Those are historically lows that we were coming off of. So, you know, it’s not like real estate didn’t exist before low rates. We need to go back and and and maybe learn some lessons from those who came before us, people who survived previous high rate environments and understand what from that, can we can we transfer to today’s environment and start executing on those strategies instead of just holding tight? Like maybe rates will come down, maybe they’ll come down and then it’ll all be okay. You know, if you are, if you are underwriting to a low rate, your project only pencils in when you have a low rate. You just have you just have a pile of risk and you know, you you’ve created no cushion for yourself. And, you know, I frankly don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for people who gave themselves no wiggle room. You know, There’s always things that come up. You always need contingencies and and of course, even the best laid plans when you have a big enough change, they can they can hurt even the most well thought out investment or deal or operation. But you know what we’ve seen largely so far? People who were really caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, or folks who never had any buffer to start with. And so thinking about creative ways as a real estate professional, you can create a buffer for yourself, whether it’s a capital buffer, you know, of, of funds or a human capital buffer of, can I expand my skill set to do other things that I haven’t done before in this space? So, you know, if I’m a residential real estate agent, what else can I do with that skill set in the real estate space? That’s going to give me a little breathing room until there’s more market activity in, in, in kind of my home habitat.
Yoni Schmidt 18:41
Yeah. The strong I guess the high interest rate is indicative of a strong economy, right? Is what I understand. Is that is that how you would interpret it as well?
Meagan McCollum 18:53
Well, it’s usually associated with that. But it’s not that a strong economy can only exist in a high rate environment. It just means we have a higher rate. You know, we’re we’re still worried about prices and we can’t if we want to maintain, you know, full employment, the the nice economic growth and activity that, that we, that we want. Then we, we have to, you know, keep the economy from running too hot. We don’t want prices to spike because we’ve made capital too cheap. And so that’s the kind of, you know, dance that the Federal Reserve is doing. You know, they they really only have one tool. Interest rate. And so, you know, when you have one, one tool, you know, everything is going to be a bit blunt. And and so you know, really what we need is a more unified effort among other parts of our financial system and our parts of our government to tackle this head on, not just leave it up to the fed and leave it up to interest rates, because if there’s if there’s positive, sustained movement on price pressures getting lower, then that gives the fed space to make capital cheaper without pushing us, you know, too far, too fast and and pushing us into a recession. Nobody wants that. But we have to be cognizant of these prices.
Yoni Schmidt 20:37
Yeah. And I do want to talk about that in just a second. I have a question actually, just about that. Okay. Before I ask this question, you know, Dr. Seagrave sent me an article. I think it was a Wall Street Journal or New York Times article just a few weeks ago that came out talking about how asset prices, real estate asset prices in the US are 30 to 40% overvalued at the moment. Have you did you get a chance to see that article?
Meagan McCollum 21:02
I did, he shared that one with me as well.
Yoni Schmidt 21:05
What were your thoughts?
Meagan McCollum 21:08
I thought it was a little bit overblown. But I think there’s a there’s some truth to it and that, you know, when you have assets that have stale valuations, you know, because they’re transacted so infrequently and the rate of transaction has gone down substantially in the past couple of years, so we don’t have as many fresh valuations. Then, you know, you do really run the risk of, of having, you know, this problem of overvaluation. Valuation. So. So maybe it’s not quite as big as that article would suggest, but I think that there are true pockets of perhaps, you know, prices that you see on a spreadsheet are not really supported by the fundamentals of how those properties are operating.
Yoni Schmidt 21:55
Yeah. And I you know, I feel like in the center of the US here in Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, right, Kansas, Missouri, even, you know, we’re shielded. We don’t have those swings that the coasts have. Right. And we’re shielded. We don’t see insane. You know, appreciation and values. But we also don’t see, you know, steep drops in asset values. I agree with you that, you know, having dry powder and being being safe is something that you have to take into consideration when you’re, you know, underwriting a deal and doing that sensitivity analysis to understand what’s going to happen to my cash flow if I go from a 4% interest rate to a 10% interest rate and playing with that a little bit. But to go back to what you were talking about earlier, my question was, could you talk to us a little bit about the intersection of public policy, real estate, finance, and especially how it comes into play with affordability and access?
Meagan McCollum 23:02
Okay, that’s a really big question. So I’ll take a stab at it though. Because, you know, when you’re talking about public policy and real estate, you’re, you know, you’re you’re talking about public policy at several different levels from very highly localized, like what does your neighbor think about your project and what are they going to do to either push it forward or hold it back? To, you know, a city wide or county wide strategy that may come with Incentives. Carrots, sticks. You know, they’re all the tools that they have at their disposal to shape real estate, the real estate market that they’re operating within. And you know how much emphasis that city puts on property taxes as part of their budget versus how much is sales taxes, how much is from other things? And so that kind of sometimes will drive how much attention is paid in the policy space, because it’s how much does it affect the city’s budget. But then, you know, you have state level policy as well. And so, you know, sometimes state level policy may not, you know, have that same effectiveness because it’s trying to do a lot of different. It’s trying to serve a lot of different markets with, you know, unified policies. And then you get all the way up to the national level. And you know, there’s of course, you know, you have HUD, you have your GSEs, you know that all you can pull some levers on them. But when we’re talking national, we’re usually talking policy from the fiscal side. That’s what’s going to be the most directly impactful. Not just, you know, you change something nationally that’s going to trickle down to every property, either directly or indirectly. So you know that that’s the one that you have to have. You know, you always have to have an eye on because that’s really going to drive, you know, your cost that’s in you as an individual have the least impact over that. You know, any one individual doesn’t, you know, can’t move those financial markets on their own. But you as an As an individual, investor or developer. Depending on your scale, you may have a real opportunity to shape your neighborhood. A real opportunity to shape your city. So, you know, you kind of take what comes at the state and federal level to some extent. You know, you always want to be aware of it, but, you know, you have limited efforts and resources to deploy, you know, focus on your local city, focus on your neighborhood, focus on the things that you can actually impact. And it just don’t don’t lose sleep over things you can’t control at all.
Yoni Schmidt 26:14
Yeah, great. Thank you for that. I guess a little bit about the the center for Real Estate Studies at to how do you stay engaged with, you know, the broader real estate community outside of academia? I know the answer a little bit, but I want you to share it with the world as well. And tell us, how could people also get involved if they want, if they were in the industry and they wanted to, you know, get get a little bit more involved?
Meagan McCollum 26:45
Absolutely. So as I as I mentioned at the beginning, you know, those those three pillars professional engagement, research and student experience as well, they all it’s, you know, a virtuous circle. So in our, in our classes and in our student clubs and activities, you know, we don’t do those in isolation. We depend completely on our local and regional professional community to help make those meaningful for our students. So so we have we have folks like you who serve as guest speakers in our classes, speakers for our our real estate club events. And then, you know, on a more individual level, we also have we also have a running Database of student of professionals who were willing to engage one on one with their students.So that’s, you know, that is an opportunity that I would immediately put anyone who’s interested in, you know, interacting with our students and giving back to that community. Direct them to that. And, you know, I can I can, you know, help facilitate that. But and my real estate principles class, one of the my favorite assignments is that I pair students with two professionals in very different sectors of real estate and have them, do you know, 45 minute informational interview with them. You know, students kind of complain about it at first like, oh, I have to go talk to this person. I don’t know. And it’s going to be awkward. And, you know, I don’t even know what they what their job is. I don’t get it. And, you know, I have to do this outside of class, you know, grumble, grumble, grumble. But then when they write up their reports, it’s really fun for me to read them and learn about the insights that the professional community was able to deliver to my students that I could not bring to them on my own. You know, I’m one person. I have, you know, a wide base of knowledge. But, you know, I have my particular lane of expertise and that, you know, is not going to align with what every student is interested in. And so being able to bring in the professional community to interact with our students and give them those little windows into what different paths in real estate could look like for them is something that’s really, really meaningful. Another way that we’re able to engage with, with the professional community is through our research arm. So we have in the past done some projects where we have, you know, as a kind of third party nonpartisan, you know, academic organization, done analysis for organizations about, you know, whatever problem they bring to us. And, you know, sometimes that’s just something that is worked on and, you know, with a few professors. Other times it’s something that we’re able to bring students alongside. Just depends on the nature of what what the question is. But through, you know, through conducting research, that’s going to have very practical implications for, you know, our client all the way to, you know, just being willing to spend an hour of your time with a student and, you know, see where that goes. What? You know, I every, every semester I have, you know, people who sign up over and over again to do this informational interview assignment with our students because they they just enjoy it that much. And so I’m, I’m really thankful to all of them. And, you know, I would encourage anyone who’s interested to, to, to get involved in that manner. And and that’s a great entry point.
Yoni Schmidt 30:25
Yeah. I’d love to get involved in that. That. That’s something that I don’t do right now. Well, finally, just one last question. Tell us a little bit about, you know what? What is next for the Center for Real Estate Studies at to any exciting initiatives, if any prospective students are out there and they’re they’re interested in getting involved, then, you know, maybe they’re headed to to you this semester or next semester and so on. What should they do and what could they be looking forward to getting involved with?
Meagan McCollum 31:02
Absolutely. So what we’ve done largely so far in the first couple years that we’ve operated has been very local. Which has been great diving into the city of Tulsa as kind of our own personal laboratory and getting to see a lot of sites interact with a lot of folks who work in a lot of different areas of real estate within Tulsa. But we’re, you know, as we go into our third year and beyond, we’re kind of going beyond those borders, those city borders, and we’re taking students to do site tours in Oklahoma City. We’re taking students to the ICSC annual conference in Las Vegas in May, and we’re even partnering with one of our alums who’s in Dubai, and we’re going to bring some students to to learn about a new development that they’re doing out there. So I, you know, if you’re interested in seeing the intersection of that physical asset and financial asset, that kind of what what the heart is of real estate. If you’re interested in getting out there and learning, you know, not just in the classroom, although that’s a very important component of it. But then taking that and getting to apply it directly through going out and seeing things for things for yourself that, you know, that’s that’s what we’re trying to move forward here. And I’m really excited about these opportunities that are coming up and that we’re developing for for our students today. And, you know, the students of the future here at the University of Tulsa.
Yoni Schmidt 32:40
Yeah. Love it. You know, I always am so excited to come speak and meet the students. And they all seem so engaged and excited about the program. So thank you so much, Meagan, for being here, talking to us, educating me. And our our listeners, even though, you know, it may not be many, but hopefully this word will spread to the masses. I appreciate your time and thank you so much.
Meagan McCollum 33:09
Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity to come talk with you today.
Outro 33:16
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